(LottaLou) Abusing children is something Christians can't do. Christians have a relationship RESTored with God. And God would take us home early if we habitually abused children. So pedephiles in Churchs aren't saved yet. They are pre-Christians. Once saved, one may have used to be a pedephile. But with the heart change, we can't abuse children. Abuses lead children away from Jesus. When born of God, our souls become spiritual. No longer spiritually blind/dead in trespasses/sins, but redeemed. We used to abide in sins. But no more. We feel convicted and confess our sin, & He is faithful to forgive...
(Cristoiglesia) So, you do indeed believe that Christians cannot sin and that the redemption provided by our faith prevents us from actual sin. Are you saying that just one sin would be evidence of a reprobate soul and as a result there is no purpose of repentance once saved or reconciliation since the evidence of sin says there was no redemption to begin with? Let me see if I understand your position…..we have that one salvific experience of faith through grace and we will never sin again? This makes absolutely no sense based on biblical teaching.
LottaLou)As a Christian, you should realize that you couldn't abide in the sin of molesting children. You would know that the Father knows what we do behind closed doors. Christians are forgiven for past, present & future sins. And when we sin, we sin in the Light of Christ. So we know what God thinks of abusing children. Jesus had warned of hell fire for this. And as Christians with the love of God in our hearts, how could we abuse children?!! You said yourself that if a Christian takes Eucarist without discerning the body of Christ, some sleep. And so any Christian abusing Children who take Eucarist would die early. This sin is not discerning that we are purchased with a high price. We are not our own. We belong to Jesus.
(Cristoiglesia) I disagree with you and I think that your position is very dangerous to ones soul. Christians face temptation and are seduced by sin which separates us from the familial relationship with God. If one remains unrepentant then the soul may indeed die and be lost. One that was “In Christ” has fallen away due to unrepentant sin. We all have different weaknesses that Satan exploits through temptation to separate us from our salvific promise. That being said these sins remain and separate us from God unless we choose to repent and seek reconciliation. So, it is the Church position and the teaching of Scripture that we all are sinners and that through Christ we can be forgiven when we ask to be with a sincere, contrite desire. There is no sin so great or so small that we cannot go to God for forgiveness and He will forgive us 70 times 70. You are very wrong to believe that Christians are free from sin and all those that sin are just reprobate souls. We are certainly not forgiven of future sins that are not confessed and repented.
(LottaLou) The Bible tells us that Jesus is the Only One who was born without sin nature (from the mans seed, tendency to rebel). Jesus is the Lamb of God without blemish. And when tempted in the wilderness, Jesus didn't sin like the 1st Adam. The Bible tells us that John & Mary had fathers, conceived in man's sin nature (sperm).
(Cristoiglesia) We agree that Jesus was born without sin, where we would disagree is how that occurred.
We must look to the origin of original sin which is transmitted in the semen along with the human nature but it is not a part of the soul which is the spiritual part of our nature. The semen is not the cause of the soul which is the eternal part of our nature but the movement of the semen disposes itself into the soul and infects it. We are a part of the guilt of Adam and Eve by the inheritance of our humanity with the attachment of guilt affecting the soul more than the humanity that was already perfect.
Jesus did not commit actual sin nor was His soul stained by original sin because of God’s grace that saved the blessed mother of God from the inheritance of original sin at her conception to prepare her as the perfect vessel for the nurturing of our Lord within the tabernacle of her womb. She was made pure so that no sin could dwell with the God man. In conclusion, the blessed mother received the benefit of her Son’s redemptive sacrifice at her conception. St. John received the same grace at birth. I would also remind you that Adam and Eve were created without sin. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
23 July, 2009
More discussion with LottaLou about the Church and apostolic succession
(LottaLou)I don't believe Jesus only asked Peter to Lead the whole Church. Jesus Christ is our High Priest & King, who is our Lord & our God. And Jesus has all the Names of His Apostle/Prophets written in the Church Foundation. So I don't agree in the Apostolic succession, but understand that this is true for the Catholic Church. Really, all True Christian Churches have the same foundational teachings as the Catholic Church. But Catholics are legalistic about it. And add rituals & things have to be done a certain way. And there are errors in the extra books in the Catholic Cannon. That isn't my learning style.
(Cristoiglesia) Well, let us see if what you believe aligns with the teaching of Jesus as recorded in the Scriptures. You are correct that Jesus is the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek, King, Lord and God. The Bible does not say that Jesus wrote the names of the disciples on the 12 foundation stones of the Church but that they are the twelve foundation stones in His construction vernacular. Continuing with the construction vernacular used by our Lord there is no other foundation mentioned except to say that Jesus is the cornerstone. Therefore the disciples are the entirety of the foundation and the Bible does not say that the foundation will be enlarged to add other foundation stones but that the Church will be built upon the foundation of the twelve that Jesus chose personally and publically before the establishment of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church at Pentecost. The Church grew from this foundation and no other that can be identified in Scriptures or in any historical accounts. This is why St. Ignatius, the third bishop of the bishopric of St. Peter in Antioch and the disciple of St. Peter and St. John said in defining the Church that it is those who gather around the Bishop. At this point apostolic succession was firmly established and accepted as the only valid leadership and authority of the Church. So according to Scripture it is indeed true that all true Christian Churches are those that gather around the Bishop who succeeded from a validly ordained Bishop. So, accordingly apostolic succession is the mark of the true Church. Unless, of course, you think you know more about the teaching of our Lord than someone who was the disciple of two of the Lord’s disciples and two of the foundation stones of the Church.
Yes we are serious about correct teaching and practice but not in a legalistic way but instead the way of truth. There are no errors in the Bible. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(Cristoiglesia) Well, let us see if what you believe aligns with the teaching of Jesus as recorded in the Scriptures. You are correct that Jesus is the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek, King, Lord and God. The Bible does not say that Jesus wrote the names of the disciples on the 12 foundation stones of the Church but that they are the twelve foundation stones in His construction vernacular. Continuing with the construction vernacular used by our Lord there is no other foundation mentioned except to say that Jesus is the cornerstone. Therefore the disciples are the entirety of the foundation and the Bible does not say that the foundation will be enlarged to add other foundation stones but that the Church will be built upon the foundation of the twelve that Jesus chose personally and publically before the establishment of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church at Pentecost. The Church grew from this foundation and no other that can be identified in Scriptures or in any historical accounts. This is why St. Ignatius, the third bishop of the bishopric of St. Peter in Antioch and the disciple of St. Peter and St. John said in defining the Church that it is those who gather around the Bishop. At this point apostolic succession was firmly established and accepted as the only valid leadership and authority of the Church. So according to Scripture it is indeed true that all true Christian Churches are those that gather around the Bishop who succeeded from a validly ordained Bishop. So, accordingly apostolic succession is the mark of the true Church. Unless, of course, you think you know more about the teaching of our Lord than someone who was the disciple of two of the Lord’s disciples and two of the foundation stones of the Church.
Yes we are serious about correct teaching and practice but not in a legalistic way but instead the way of truth. There are no errors in the Bible. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
21 July, 2009
A continuing discussion with LottaLou on the formation of the Church by Jesus and the disciples.
(LottaLou)I'm not in opposition to Christ's Church. Only doctrines that are heresies. Heresies sneak in a number of Churches. That is one of the devil's attack stratagies.
(Cristoiglesia) I guess when Jesus said that His Church, the Catholic Church, is the “pillar and foundation of the truth” that you believe there are exceptions to the rule or that Jesus was using hyperbole. He said His Church will never fall into apostasy when He said the gates of hell will never prevail against it. There are no exceptions nor is Jesus using hyperbole. The Church does not nor has it ever taught heresy and never will as Jesus promised. The heresies come from those separated from the truth outside the Church Jesus and the disciples founded as we have already discussed.
(LottaLou)I know Peter is an important Apostle of Christ & given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. The other disciples there were also given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. I believe Jesus was talking to all the Apostles when He said, 'I give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. (I notice that there is more than one key. Jesus said keys.)
(Cristoiglesia) It is true that all the Bishops in apostolic succession have authority from Christ but only one was selected by Jesus to lead the Church and the shepherds of the Church. The Bible records only St. Peter receiving the keys. Please refer to the verses in Isaiah I gave you previously in which Jesus was appointing the leader of His Kingdom whose authority is passed on to others. You are reading a great deal into Scriptures that they simply do not say.
(LottaLou)I believe the Catholic Church is on the Rock Foundation, Christ. But not all the Popes, etc. have been Christians. And a history book helps discern this. (Obviously some Priests caught abusing children weren't Christians.) And Catholic religious or spiritual leaders are human & make honest mistakes too.
(Cristoiglesia)Yes the Bible says that Jesus is the cornerstone and the disciples are the 12 foundation stones of the Church. As for your saying that not all Popes have been Christian, I would guess that depends on how one defines Christian. You also say that priests who have committed sexual abuse are not Christian. Are you trying to draw a parallel that Christians are only those without sin? Just for your information we are all sinners. The Bible tells us that there were only three people ever born who lived without sin and that is Jesus; the blessed mother of God and St. John the Baptist. In spite of sinners and possibly evil people within the Church the Church has never wavered from the truth just as Jesus promised the faithful and all of humanity.
(LottaLou) Rock (Petra) in a Strong's Exhaustive is in M't7:24 built house on a rock. Lu6:48 founded upon a rock. 1Co10:4 they drank of that Spiritual Rock...& that Rock was Christ; Compare w/OT Ex17:6 drinking water Rock(Tsoor). Ps78:35 God is Rock (Tsoor). Ps62:2 He Only is my Rock (Tsoor) and my Salvation (Yeshuah).
In the OT, the Rock is Jesus Christ.
(Cristoiglesia) Yes, In Koine Greek Petra is the feminine gender of rock.
(LottaLou) “Kepha is a curved Rock, not a foundational Rock.”
(Cristoiglesia) No, Kepha is the Aramaic word meaning rock. The shape of the rock does not matter, it simply means Rock.
(LottaLou) Petrus is Piece of the Rock, larger than a stone (litho). So Petrus is of the Rock (Christ) foundation.
(Cristoiglesia) The word is Petros which is a Koine Greek word in the masculine gender that means simply rock. In Attic Greek hundreds of years before Christ but a dead language in the first century records some Greek poetry used Petros to mean small stone but in Koine Greek spoken in first century Jerusalem this archaic usage would have been unknown. As I showed you in the previous post it would make no sense in that usage anyway. The facts are from the original Koine Greek and comparing to the spoken Aramaic Simon was definitely the Rock of which Jesus was speaking. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(Cristoiglesia) I guess when Jesus said that His Church, the Catholic Church, is the “pillar and foundation of the truth” that you believe there are exceptions to the rule or that Jesus was using hyperbole. He said His Church will never fall into apostasy when He said the gates of hell will never prevail against it. There are no exceptions nor is Jesus using hyperbole. The Church does not nor has it ever taught heresy and never will as Jesus promised. The heresies come from those separated from the truth outside the Church Jesus and the disciples founded as we have already discussed.
(LottaLou)I know Peter is an important Apostle of Christ & given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. The other disciples there were also given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. I believe Jesus was talking to all the Apostles when He said, 'I give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. (I notice that there is more than one key. Jesus said keys.)
(Cristoiglesia) It is true that all the Bishops in apostolic succession have authority from Christ but only one was selected by Jesus to lead the Church and the shepherds of the Church. The Bible records only St. Peter receiving the keys. Please refer to the verses in Isaiah I gave you previously in which Jesus was appointing the leader of His Kingdom whose authority is passed on to others. You are reading a great deal into Scriptures that they simply do not say.
(LottaLou)I believe the Catholic Church is on the Rock Foundation, Christ. But not all the Popes, etc. have been Christians. And a history book helps discern this. (Obviously some Priests caught abusing children weren't Christians.) And Catholic religious or spiritual leaders are human & make honest mistakes too.
(Cristoiglesia)Yes the Bible says that Jesus is the cornerstone and the disciples are the 12 foundation stones of the Church. As for your saying that not all Popes have been Christian, I would guess that depends on how one defines Christian. You also say that priests who have committed sexual abuse are not Christian. Are you trying to draw a parallel that Christians are only those without sin? Just for your information we are all sinners. The Bible tells us that there were only three people ever born who lived without sin and that is Jesus; the blessed mother of God and St. John the Baptist. In spite of sinners and possibly evil people within the Church the Church has never wavered from the truth just as Jesus promised the faithful and all of humanity.
(LottaLou) Rock (Petra) in a Strong's Exhaustive is in M't7:24 built house on a rock. Lu6:48 founded upon a rock. 1Co10:4 they drank of that Spiritual Rock...& that Rock was Christ; Compare w/OT Ex17:6 drinking water Rock(Tsoor). Ps78:35 God is Rock (Tsoor). Ps62:2 He Only is my Rock (Tsoor) and my Salvation (Yeshuah).
In the OT, the Rock is Jesus Christ.
(Cristoiglesia) Yes, In Koine Greek Petra is the feminine gender of rock.
(LottaLou) “Kepha is a curved Rock, not a foundational Rock.”
(Cristoiglesia) No, Kepha is the Aramaic word meaning rock. The shape of the rock does not matter, it simply means Rock.
(LottaLou) Petrus is Piece of the Rock, larger than a stone (litho). So Petrus is of the Rock (Christ) foundation.
(Cristoiglesia) The word is Petros which is a Koine Greek word in the masculine gender that means simply rock. In Attic Greek hundreds of years before Christ but a dead language in the first century records some Greek poetry used Petros to mean small stone but in Koine Greek spoken in first century Jerusalem this archaic usage would have been unknown. As I showed you in the previous post it would make no sense in that usage anyway. The facts are from the original Koine Greek and comparing to the spoken Aramaic Simon was definitely the Rock of which Jesus was speaking. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
20 July, 2009
Discussion with LottaLou on the interpretation of Matthew 16:18
(LottaLou) You say the Church and imply the Church is only of the Catholic Church.
I say the Church is all Christians. The Church is the Body of Christ and they are in a number of different Churches, yet one Church; or One Body of Christ.
Jesus Church is built on the foundation that St.Peter made an example of. To confess with ones mouth, in God given faith that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Jesus said that He builds His Church on this Massive Rock (Christ, Petra) and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Peter was Cephas (curved rock) so first represented being humble. And then added Petros, 'Piece of the Rock' and is smaller than the Petra that is 'Massive Rock'. Jesus Christ is the Rock Foundation of His Church. To believe in Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God.
(Cristoiglesia) I truly appreciate the efforts to defend the Protestant opposition to Christ’s Church using the original languages as a weapon against what Christ and the disciples have founded. The defense with the following verse:
Matthew 16:18: "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church."
Of course this is the verse where our Lord appointed Simon as the leader of the disciples, head of the Church on earth and the Pope. It is believed by some Protestants that they can defend their position of Simon not receiving the authority from Jesus by using the original Greek.
The claim made is that there is a difference between the Greek words “petra” and “petros”. Now, if this discussion between Jesus and Simon had occurred a few centuries earlier before Attic Greek had ceased to be and lost in antiquity it might be a valid argument. However, in the first century when this discussion occurred the Greek language was Koine Greek instead. In Koine Greek there is no difference in the meaning between “petra” and “petros” except in Koine Greek “petra” is feminine and “petros” is the masculine form. So what I am saying is that one is making a great error in interpretation to assign the Attic Greek meanings large stone and small stone, which was used in ancient Greek poetic writings, when that language was gone for centuries in usage.
Now, let us look at the Aramaic which is the familial language spoken by Jesus and the disciples which is the language which this discussion recorded in the Scriptures in Koine Greek occurred. We know that Jesus spoke in Aramaic because His words on the cross are in Aramaic (Matt 27:46). In fact, the book of Matthew was originally written in Aramaic according to most scholars including myself. Also in the St. Paul’s letters to the Galatians and to the Corinthians we see the word Cephas a total of eight times which is the English equivalent of kepha. Kepha always means rock. So, in Matthew 16:18 it would read using the Aramaic “You are Kepha and on this Kepha I will build my Church.” There is no big rock and pebble as evidence was given in the then dead Attic Greek. So in the original language Jesus does not offer a contrast but instead He clearly is calling Simon the rock.
If one is not yet convinced that the rendering in Attic Greek is improper let us look at Matthew 16:18 with the Attic Greek interpretation and see which one makes the most sense…. “Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my father in heaven. And I tell you, you are just a little pebble and upon this rock I will build my Church.” Instead of the Koine Greek “you are Rock (Petros) and upon this rock (petros) I will build my Church. He goes on to give Simon Peter the keys to heaven showing the authority of the rock named Peter. As the King of Kings Jesus is making Peter His prime minister of His kingdom and we can see the foreshadowing from Isaiah 22: 21-22 and the leader of the flock from John 21:15-17. It shows in Isaiah the passing on of the keys from one to another for authority of the kingdom just as the authority of the papacy is passed on.
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
I say the Church is all Christians. The Church is the Body of Christ and they are in a number of different Churches, yet one Church; or One Body of Christ.
Jesus Church is built on the foundation that St.Peter made an example of. To confess with ones mouth, in God given faith that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Jesus said that He builds His Church on this Massive Rock (Christ, Petra) and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Peter was Cephas (curved rock) so first represented being humble. And then added Petros, 'Piece of the Rock' and is smaller than the Petra that is 'Massive Rock'. Jesus Christ is the Rock Foundation of His Church. To believe in Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God.
(Cristoiglesia) I truly appreciate the efforts to defend the Protestant opposition to Christ’s Church using the original languages as a weapon against what Christ and the disciples have founded. The defense with the following verse:
Matthew 16:18: "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church."
Of course this is the verse where our Lord appointed Simon as the leader of the disciples, head of the Church on earth and the Pope. It is believed by some Protestants that they can defend their position of Simon not receiving the authority from Jesus by using the original Greek.
The claim made is that there is a difference between the Greek words “petra” and “petros”. Now, if this discussion between Jesus and Simon had occurred a few centuries earlier before Attic Greek had ceased to be and lost in antiquity it might be a valid argument. However, in the first century when this discussion occurred the Greek language was Koine Greek instead. In Koine Greek there is no difference in the meaning between “petra” and “petros” except in Koine Greek “petra” is feminine and “petros” is the masculine form. So what I am saying is that one is making a great error in interpretation to assign the Attic Greek meanings large stone and small stone, which was used in ancient Greek poetic writings, when that language was gone for centuries in usage.
Now, let us look at the Aramaic which is the familial language spoken by Jesus and the disciples which is the language which this discussion recorded in the Scriptures in Koine Greek occurred. We know that Jesus spoke in Aramaic because His words on the cross are in Aramaic (Matt 27:46). In fact, the book of Matthew was originally written in Aramaic according to most scholars including myself. Also in the St. Paul’s letters to the Galatians and to the Corinthians we see the word Cephas a total of eight times which is the English equivalent of kepha. Kepha always means rock. So, in Matthew 16:18 it would read using the Aramaic “You are Kepha and on this Kepha I will build my Church.” There is no big rock and pebble as evidence was given in the then dead Attic Greek. So in the original language Jesus does not offer a contrast but instead He clearly is calling Simon the rock.
If one is not yet convinced that the rendering in Attic Greek is improper let us look at Matthew 16:18 with the Attic Greek interpretation and see which one makes the most sense…. “Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my father in heaven. And I tell you, you are just a little pebble and upon this rock I will build my Church.” Instead of the Koine Greek “you are Rock (Petros) and upon this rock (petros) I will build my Church. He goes on to give Simon Peter the keys to heaven showing the authority of the rock named Peter. As the King of Kings Jesus is making Peter His prime minister of His kingdom and we can see the foreshadowing from Isaiah 22: 21-22 and the leader of the flock from John 21:15-17. It shows in Isaiah the passing on of the keys from one to another for authority of the kingdom just as the authority of the papacy is passed on.
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
19 July, 2009
Discussion with LottaLou about the Church, Authority, the Antichrist and Christian Unity
(LottaLou) It is being self righteous to write that my Pastor is keeping others from Christ's Church.
(Cristoiglesia) Is your pastor encouraging his members to go to the one Church that Jesus founded, the Catholic Church, which according to Scriptures is the enduring Church free from apostasy which is the pillar and foundation of the truth? Or is he one of those false teachers that those with itching ears gather around because they can no longer endure sound doctrine?
(LottaLou) The Lord Jesus was specific to my Pastor to have a non denominational Church. One that is open to the Holy Spirit and is based on the Bible as Gods written Word & Truth.
(Cristoiglesia) Really, so Christ did not mean what He prayed to the Father that we all be one in His Church as He and the Father are one. Instead you claim He is inspiring others to go against His prayer and divide the Church.
Are you saying that Jesus is attempting to be the father of confusion? BTW, St Ignatius the disciple of St. John and of St. Peter defined the Church as those who gather around the bishop in the first century of the Church. What bishop in apostolic succession does this pastor represent since he calls his sect a “Church”.
(LottaLou) My Pastor has preached that we follow after the Spirit above the written letter.
(Cristoiglesia) Really, did He also teach you that this teaching is the teaching of the ancient heresy of Gnosticism that was spoken of by St. Paul as a threat to the Church? All of the Gnostic books were banned by the Church in the fifth century by Pope St. Gelasius.
(LottaLou)Also to consider satan who tempted Jesus Christ with scripture. The first of satan's temptation was to tempt Jesus to doubt He was the Son of God.
For us born of God, satan tempts us to doubt we are God's child. Then he can say scripture and twist it.
(Cristoiglesia) Yes, Satan did use Scripture to get Jesus to jump and depend on His Father to save Him but Satan left out the fact that God protects us from accidents and not intentional acts. Jesus knew better. Jesus never doubted that He was His Fathers Son and God incarnate. I agree that Satan can use Scripture to His advantage.
(LottaLou) Pastor Jack was called to Pastor a Church that in non denominational, and that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. So when I go to the River of Life, I am going to Christ's Church.
(Cristoiglesia) No, you are going to Pastor Jack’s church and not Christ’s Church that was founded by Christ with Himself as the cornerstone and the disciples as the 12 foundation stones. Pastor Jack is not mentioned as one of the stones. He is teaching outside of the authority of Christ and His Church.
(LottaLou) And Jesus has told me that He has many copies of the Key to the Kingdom of Heaven.
(Cristoiglesia)..No, there is one only because Jesus founded only one Church. If you were told this in a prophetic message it was from a source in opposition of Christ with a spirit of confusion.
When we Catholics wrote the NT we did not write it to be used outside of the Church but to supplement the fullness of God's Word consisting of the written and the oral passed down to the faithful through apostolic succession.
(LottaLou) The New Testament was written by Holy Men moved by the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Cannon has some additional teaching that changes Gods message of Grace sometimes. I don't agree with those. And also the apocryphal writings in the Catholic Cannon. I have read some of that and something in them always contradicts Gods already tried, tested & found true Word in the Holy Bible.
(Cristoiglesia) Yes the New Testament was written by Catholic Christian men inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Christian Canon was decided at the three African Synods in the late fourth and early fifth centuries. The Canon was decided under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the authority given by Christ to His Church the Catholic Church. The so-called additional teaching you speak of is contained in the OT Canon from which Jesus and the disciples quoted. None of the Holy Scriptures changes any of the teaching of Jesus or the disciples about grace or anything else. The written Word of God is reliable for teaching and for truth.
There are no apocryphal books in the Canon of Scriptures ever used by the Church, you are opposing the Deuterocanonicals which as I said have always been a part of Scripture and are a part of the OT Canon quoted by Jesus. If it is good enough for Jesus it should be good enough for His Church. The Deuterocanonicals ARE God’s word and no one has the authority to remove them. The Protestant condensed Bible without the fullness of God’s written Word is only about two centuries old and its use is just another error in Protestant teaching.
(LottaLou)The Holy Spirit was poured down on the Day of Pentecost. And it is Gods Spirit who gifts us to preach the Kingdom of God and God's saving Grace in God given authority & power. More than Peter was told to preach the Gospel to every nation.
(Cristoiglesia) All Christians are responsible for the great commission of our Lord to preach the Gospel.
Come to the Church for the fullness of truth. Remember Jesus prayed in the Garden before His arrest, Father let them be one as I and the Father are one. Can there be any mistaken His will?
(LottaLou) 1Jn2:27 But the anointing that ye have received of Him abides in you, and ye need not that anyone teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is Truth, and is no lie, and even as He has taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
(Cristoiglesia) If you apply the Scripture that you just quoted to the preceding Scriptures you will find that those being instructed here are those in unity with Christ’s Church and not those outside of that visible unity. In verse 18 it speaks of the last hour referring to the imminence of the coming of our Lord or as St. Paul said the consummation of the ages when the Lord comes in judgment. It speaks of many antichrists which have come. It says that these antichrists came out of the unity of Christ’s Church and in doing so they no longer belong to us or are a part of us for if they did they would have remained. Could this not describe the rebellious Protestants who left the unity of the Church? Certainly they are enemies of Christ and His Church. The Great Church father St. Cyprian said that all are to be called anti-Christ’s who have separated themselves from the unity and charity of the Catholic Church.
In verse 19 it is made plain that those who left the Church were not of the Church for the proof of being in the Church is to continue belonging to the Church. In verse 20 the instruction is that those who are the true faithful are those in unity with the Church And not those outside the Church but those under the influence of the approved pastors through apostolic succession who receive the grace of the Holy Spirit which is promised to the Church. It is the Church that has all the necessary knowledge and that thee is no need to seek instruction elsewhere. The following verses talk about the antichrist being one who denies the Father and the Son as identification of the one but the many antichrists prepare the way.
Verse 27 speaks of those false teachers called the antichrists who wish to seduce the faithful from the truth within the Church who usurp the authority of the Church for their own authority. But the Scripture warns to abide in the one that has instructed you in the truth which is God’s own true Church the Catholic Church. So, according to the Scripture you provided there is no anointing of teaching outside of His Church but instead just the opposite in seductive heresies taught by the antichrists.
(LottaLou) My Pastor has preached that we have a teacher above our teachers.
So I ask God. The Holy Spirit gives me understanding & Pastor preaches the answer & Holy Spirit confirms what was preached.
(Cristoiglesia) The problem is that your pastor has no authority to preach or to teach as the Scripture you provided in 1 John 2 but instead by his separation he preaches and teaches in the spirit of the antichrist 1 John 2:27 is a warning not to be seduced by such teaching.
Come to the Church for the fullness of truth. Remember Jesus prayed in the Garden before His arrest, Father let them be one as I and the Father are one.
(LottaLou)It is written to let the tares grow with the wheat. To me the tares are sown of the devil and are false doctrines that try to mix with the Word of God (wheat). You can see that in Revelations to the 7Churches, that false doctrines attempted to sneak into the Church. And Jesus hated that. What Jesus wants is our hearts restored with Him and His Father.
(Cristoiglesia) Yes, of course, He wants us to be one in His Church where the fullness of truth is found and to reject the teaching of those claiming to be of the Church but remain outside of the Church. St. John clearly states in 1 John 2 that we are to trust those inside the Church and the pastors and teachers who are valid pastors in succession from the disciples. They and the Church are the truth and where our trust in the truth should lie and not with those teachers outside of the Church who are the antichrists. Restoration comes with those who are in Christ returning or remaining in His Church the Catholic Church.
(LottaLou) So I don't see that going to a Catholic Church is going to teach me the fullness of Truth. Because they have some tares in it. And so do other nonCatholic Christian Churches. This is what divides the Church. And when thfe Church judges the other Churches critically, then the gifts in both Churches aren't shared with one another. So the Church is basically crippled. The Unity of the Church hasn't come in yet. This has yet to come to pass. There are Ministries of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors & Teachers to edify one another until the fullness of the Body of Christ and that we agree in One Faith. And that would be the Foundational teachings of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, the Seed of the Woman (virgin Mother Mary), The Lamb of God without Blemish, the Resurrection and the Eternal Life.
1Jn5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him Who is True and we are in Him Who Is True, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the True God, and eternal life.
(Cristoiglesia) You just provided scriptures that say that those outside of His Church are certainly false teachers called antichrists preparing the way for the antichrist. You say there are tares within Christ’s Church and I would not disagree but the Church has Christ’s promise of the truth and there is no teacher outside of His Church that has such a promise to assure us of the truth. Jesus said His Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth and it is in that we can trust and not the teaching of me claiming authority not given by Christ. Anyone can claim such authority but the Bible says that true authority does NOT come from outside of His Church. Sharing these “gifts” as you call them outside of the Church would only serve to dilute the truth and not further empower the work of the Church and its testimony to the world. The Church must remain the light unto the world and the shining city on a hill. The Church must be the ark from a sinful world where the truth can be found. That is why it is Christ’s Church the Catholic Church only that Jesus gave His promises to and the leadership which is necessary for the enduring Church free from error and with the fullness of truth. When one is full of truth there is no room for deviation.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(Cristoiglesia) Is your pastor encouraging his members to go to the one Church that Jesus founded, the Catholic Church, which according to Scriptures is the enduring Church free from apostasy which is the pillar and foundation of the truth? Or is he one of those false teachers that those with itching ears gather around because they can no longer endure sound doctrine?
(LottaLou) The Lord Jesus was specific to my Pastor to have a non denominational Church. One that is open to the Holy Spirit and is based on the Bible as Gods written Word & Truth.
(Cristoiglesia) Really, so Christ did not mean what He prayed to the Father that we all be one in His Church as He and the Father are one. Instead you claim He is inspiring others to go against His prayer and divide the Church.
Are you saying that Jesus is attempting to be the father of confusion? BTW, St Ignatius the disciple of St. John and of St. Peter defined the Church as those who gather around the bishop in the first century of the Church. What bishop in apostolic succession does this pastor represent since he calls his sect a “Church”.
(LottaLou) My Pastor has preached that we follow after the Spirit above the written letter.
(Cristoiglesia) Really, did He also teach you that this teaching is the teaching of the ancient heresy of Gnosticism that was spoken of by St. Paul as a threat to the Church? All of the Gnostic books were banned by the Church in the fifth century by Pope St. Gelasius.
(LottaLou)Also to consider satan who tempted Jesus Christ with scripture. The first of satan's temptation was to tempt Jesus to doubt He was the Son of God.
For us born of God, satan tempts us to doubt we are God's child. Then he can say scripture and twist it.
(Cristoiglesia) Yes, Satan did use Scripture to get Jesus to jump and depend on His Father to save Him but Satan left out the fact that God protects us from accidents and not intentional acts. Jesus knew better. Jesus never doubted that He was His Fathers Son and God incarnate. I agree that Satan can use Scripture to His advantage.
(LottaLou) Pastor Jack was called to Pastor a Church that in non denominational, and that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. So when I go to the River of Life, I am going to Christ's Church.
(Cristoiglesia) No, you are going to Pastor Jack’s church and not Christ’s Church that was founded by Christ with Himself as the cornerstone and the disciples as the 12 foundation stones. Pastor Jack is not mentioned as one of the stones. He is teaching outside of the authority of Christ and His Church.
(LottaLou) And Jesus has told me that He has many copies of the Key to the Kingdom of Heaven.
(Cristoiglesia)..No, there is one only because Jesus founded only one Church. If you were told this in a prophetic message it was from a source in opposition of Christ with a spirit of confusion.
When we Catholics wrote the NT we did not write it to be used outside of the Church but to supplement the fullness of God's Word consisting of the written and the oral passed down to the faithful through apostolic succession.
(LottaLou) The New Testament was written by Holy Men moved by the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Cannon has some additional teaching that changes Gods message of Grace sometimes. I don't agree with those. And also the apocryphal writings in the Catholic Cannon. I have read some of that and something in them always contradicts Gods already tried, tested & found true Word in the Holy Bible.
(Cristoiglesia) Yes the New Testament was written by Catholic Christian men inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Christian Canon was decided at the three African Synods in the late fourth and early fifth centuries. The Canon was decided under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the authority given by Christ to His Church the Catholic Church. The so-called additional teaching you speak of is contained in the OT Canon from which Jesus and the disciples quoted. None of the Holy Scriptures changes any of the teaching of Jesus or the disciples about grace or anything else. The written Word of God is reliable for teaching and for truth.
There are no apocryphal books in the Canon of Scriptures ever used by the Church, you are opposing the Deuterocanonicals which as I said have always been a part of Scripture and are a part of the OT Canon quoted by Jesus. If it is good enough for Jesus it should be good enough for His Church. The Deuterocanonicals ARE God’s word and no one has the authority to remove them. The Protestant condensed Bible without the fullness of God’s written Word is only about two centuries old and its use is just another error in Protestant teaching.
(LottaLou)The Holy Spirit was poured down on the Day of Pentecost. And it is Gods Spirit who gifts us to preach the Kingdom of God and God's saving Grace in God given authority & power. More than Peter was told to preach the Gospel to every nation.
(Cristoiglesia) All Christians are responsible for the great commission of our Lord to preach the Gospel.
Come to the Church for the fullness of truth. Remember Jesus prayed in the Garden before His arrest, Father let them be one as I and the Father are one. Can there be any mistaken His will?
(LottaLou) 1Jn2:27 But the anointing that ye have received of Him abides in you, and ye need not that anyone teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is Truth, and is no lie, and even as He has taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
(Cristoiglesia) If you apply the Scripture that you just quoted to the preceding Scriptures you will find that those being instructed here are those in unity with Christ’s Church and not those outside of that visible unity. In verse 18 it speaks of the last hour referring to the imminence of the coming of our Lord or as St. Paul said the consummation of the ages when the Lord comes in judgment. It speaks of many antichrists which have come. It says that these antichrists came out of the unity of Christ’s Church and in doing so they no longer belong to us or are a part of us for if they did they would have remained. Could this not describe the rebellious Protestants who left the unity of the Church? Certainly they are enemies of Christ and His Church. The Great Church father St. Cyprian said that all are to be called anti-Christ’s who have separated themselves from the unity and charity of the Catholic Church.
In verse 19 it is made plain that those who left the Church were not of the Church for the proof of being in the Church is to continue belonging to the Church. In verse 20 the instruction is that those who are the true faithful are those in unity with the Church And not those outside the Church but those under the influence of the approved pastors through apostolic succession who receive the grace of the Holy Spirit which is promised to the Church. It is the Church that has all the necessary knowledge and that thee is no need to seek instruction elsewhere. The following verses talk about the antichrist being one who denies the Father and the Son as identification of the one but the many antichrists prepare the way.
Verse 27 speaks of those false teachers called the antichrists who wish to seduce the faithful from the truth within the Church who usurp the authority of the Church for their own authority. But the Scripture warns to abide in the one that has instructed you in the truth which is God’s own true Church the Catholic Church. So, according to the Scripture you provided there is no anointing of teaching outside of His Church but instead just the opposite in seductive heresies taught by the antichrists.
(LottaLou) My Pastor has preached that we have a teacher above our teachers.
So I ask God. The Holy Spirit gives me understanding & Pastor preaches the answer & Holy Spirit confirms what was preached.
(Cristoiglesia) The problem is that your pastor has no authority to preach or to teach as the Scripture you provided in 1 John 2 but instead by his separation he preaches and teaches in the spirit of the antichrist 1 John 2:27 is a warning not to be seduced by such teaching.
Come to the Church for the fullness of truth. Remember Jesus prayed in the Garden before His arrest, Father let them be one as I and the Father are one.
(LottaLou)It is written to let the tares grow with the wheat. To me the tares are sown of the devil and are false doctrines that try to mix with the Word of God (wheat). You can see that in Revelations to the 7Churches, that false doctrines attempted to sneak into the Church. And Jesus hated that. What Jesus wants is our hearts restored with Him and His Father.
(Cristoiglesia) Yes, of course, He wants us to be one in His Church where the fullness of truth is found and to reject the teaching of those claiming to be of the Church but remain outside of the Church. St. John clearly states in 1 John 2 that we are to trust those inside the Church and the pastors and teachers who are valid pastors in succession from the disciples. They and the Church are the truth and where our trust in the truth should lie and not with those teachers outside of the Church who are the antichrists. Restoration comes with those who are in Christ returning or remaining in His Church the Catholic Church.
(LottaLou) So I don't see that going to a Catholic Church is going to teach me the fullness of Truth. Because they have some tares in it. And so do other nonCatholic Christian Churches. This is what divides the Church. And when thfe Church judges the other Churches critically, then the gifts in both Churches aren't shared with one another. So the Church is basically crippled. The Unity of the Church hasn't come in yet. This has yet to come to pass. There are Ministries of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors & Teachers to edify one another until the fullness of the Body of Christ and that we agree in One Faith. And that would be the Foundational teachings of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, the Seed of the Woman (virgin Mother Mary), The Lamb of God without Blemish, the Resurrection and the Eternal Life.
1Jn5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him Who is True and we are in Him Who Is True, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the True God, and eternal life.
(Cristoiglesia) You just provided scriptures that say that those outside of His Church are certainly false teachers called antichrists preparing the way for the antichrist. You say there are tares within Christ’s Church and I would not disagree but the Church has Christ’s promise of the truth and there is no teacher outside of His Church that has such a promise to assure us of the truth. Jesus said His Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth and it is in that we can trust and not the teaching of me claiming authority not given by Christ. Anyone can claim such authority but the Bible says that true authority does NOT come from outside of His Church. Sharing these “gifts” as you call them outside of the Church would only serve to dilute the truth and not further empower the work of the Church and its testimony to the world. The Church must remain the light unto the world and the shining city on a hill. The Church must be the ark from a sinful world where the truth can be found. That is why it is Christ’s Church the Catholic Church only that Jesus gave His promises to and the leadership which is necessary for the enduring Church free from error and with the fullness of truth. When one is full of truth there is no room for deviation.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
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