(chris g) Thank you for sending me the link to your blog. I read it, and disagree with your position.
(Cristoiglesia) You’re quite welcome and I am pleased to address your disagreements.
(chris g)Where do you get the idea that "anamnesis" means that a "miraculous event that transcends time" occurs, and that this is what the word "really" means? Is it your church traditions?
(Cristoiglesia) Of course it is not Church traditions that is the only reason to believe in the truly, real and substantial Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord as it is the teaching directly from our Lord and from the original disciples of our Lord maintained as the deposit of truth from the very beginning of the Church founded at Pentecost. The Church has been in total agreement with this teaching and did not receive substantial disagreement until Ulrich Zwingli in the 16th century argued for a real absence of Christ in the Eucharist and sought to change it from a Sacrament introduced by our Lord to a mere exercise or as some call it an ordinance. The other rebellious Protestants were reluctant to accept Zwingli’s teaching but eventually it prevailed among the majority of Protestants because of the obvious problem the new syncretic blend of Secular Humanism and Christianity and that was, that there was no valid clergy or teaching authority in the new Protestant movement. They had to find new man-made heretical doctrines to be a bulwark against the fullness of truth contained in the Catholic Church and adopted the heresies of the Solas, Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide and Sola Christi. Such a departure from orthodoxy made it possible and necessary to reject the foundational and fundamental teaching of the Church, which is the miracle of anamnesis, and deny the truly real and substantial Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord from their worship replacing it with an exposition of Scripture and allegorical interpretation of God’s Word instead. Instead of worshiping the corporeal Christ they worshiped mans opinion of God’s Word exposed by men without any God given authority to teach. It is not surprising that there are exponentially increasing heresies to match the exponentially increasing schisms within their body. Essentially it is a movement of division within the Corpus Christi which by these fruits it is fair to assume that this is not from God but from the author of confusion and lies. So, actually the reason that you do not accept “anamnesis “ is at least to some substantial degree because of Protestant traditions taught by Ulrich Zwingli and his followers in their protest of the teaching of Christ and the disciples in an effort to give some credibility to their new desperate syncretic movement.
In Koine Greek the literal meaning of “anamnesis” is the “loss of forgetfulness” and comes from Platonian philosophy. It does not mean to recall a past event in one’s life as does the word “remembrance” (Luke 22:19). Certainly for that to be the meaning one would no longer be able to remember after a generation or two remembrances would be impossible. That is why Jesus said to the disciples that His teaching in John 6 could not be discerned with the carnal senses which would pass away with time but that this teaching was eternal and must be discerned with the knowledge from the Spirit instead for perpetuity or at least until Jesus returns again to judge mankind and unite our soul with our glorified bodies. Some Protestant exegetes are forced to understand Jesus’ teaching at the Synod in Capernaum in a very strained, twisted and awkward way saying that Jesus said the flesh will profit nothing suggesting that He really was not teaching that what we understand that we are to eat and to drink is not His truly real and substantial Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. Such is an utterly an absurd interpretation following Jesus saying that one must eat His Body and drink His Blood to have eternal life.
How can anyone with intellect and reason conclude that Jesus had just do anything else but contradict the teaching that He had labored so succinctly to explain to the point that those who were His disciples but the twelve left Him never to follow Him again. He convinced them of the literalness of His words but they could not imagine by knowing that what Jesus was commanding of the faithful was to separate themselves or be cut off from the familial relationship of the Old Covenant under the Mosaic laws that forbid the drinking of blood.
Their leaving proves that they understood Jesus literally as did the 12 disciples. Jesus admitted to the twelve that this was hard teaching as they were aware of the teaching of Moses as well. Jesus did not go into another explanation saying that He was speaking allegorically but instead did not deny the literalness of His teaching even to the twelve. Instead He told them that this understanding would come from their spiritual senses rather than the carnal which is the true and only logical meaning of the flesh profits nothing. Surely it does profit if it must be eaten for eternal life as is the only logical understanding. Jesus said to the twelve that remained, Do you wish to leave also and St. Peter answered, “Where else shall we go as you have the words of eternal life”. Their spiritual senses or “anamnesis” that they drew upon kept them from leaving. What Jesus taught would be clearly and fully understood from the cross in due time when the disciples would truly experience a “loss of forgetfulness”. For truly the twelve had a prepared conscience from eternity for them to draw upon that was not unlike the law that God circumcised on everyone’s heart.
As Plato described “anamnesis” it is a prepared spiritual knowledge just as Jesus called the listeners at Capernaum to draw upon which is an intuitive knowledge that in Christian theological understanding means that it is knowledge placed in the human conscience (as defined by Pope Benedict XVI in “On Conscience: Two Essays by Cardinal Ratzinger. San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 2007”) before becoming the Pope who said that the central anthropological and ontological meaning of conscience is anamnesis) that we can draw upon for understanding the miracles of God and thus accepting them even without reason or intellectual affirmation. Plato lacked the fullness of understanding in that he erroneously believed in reincarnation as the source of this knowledge instead of God being the source through imputation. Plato was correct in believing that the soul is immortal.
If it was not for this prepared conscience man could not even believe in God as the Holy Spirit bringing one to faith would have nothing to appeal to for this faith. Faith does not come from intellect or reason although faith is not devoid of these faculties but from a prepared conscience that can respond to the Spirit of God.
The miracle of anamnesis is that we can call on the knowledge that has been placed in our eternal soul by God. As Jesus said in John 6 the flesh profits nothing but the Spirit reveals all.
(chris g) Nowhere in the Bible does God teach such a thing. Heb. 10:3 uses a similar variation of that same word speaking of the animal sacrifices; in which God plainly tells us that the sacrifices did nothing but forshadow the true sacrifice of Christ. Or are you saying that those animal sacrifices once a year were "miraculous events that transcends time", even though God plainly says, "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." Yes, the sacrifices were significant, but not miraculous. In this same way is the "remembrance" of the Lord's Supper. Certainly significant and important, but not transubstantiation.
(Cristoiglesia) What this is speaking of is that these sacrifices of the law of the Old Covenant were only types and figures of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Only the sacrifice of Christ can take away the sins of mankind. However the same miracle was present and that is the ability to draw upon the law in their spiritual sense as Jesus spoke of in Capernaum in reaching a proper understanding. Their remembrance or more definitive “anamnesis” is the miracle of the divine knowledge of sin placed on their immortal soul. The Old Covenant Jews recognized sin as a result of “anamnesis” just as the New Covenant perfected Jews or Christians recognize the really true and actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord. Thus, the reason that you and other Protestants do not recognize it is because you refuse to accept it with your Spiritual senses but remain in a carnal understanding preventing “anamnesis”. As St. Paul said, one must discern the Body and Blood of our Lord to receive the blessed Sacrament lest they bring condemnation on themselves for receiving in their carnal sense.
(chris g)You seem like a very nice person. I'm sorry that you have abandoned the grace of Jesus for another gospel; a system of collaborative works that you and God perform for the security of your soul.
(Cristoiglesia) Well thank you for the compliment. You seem nice as well even though you refuse the communion of Christ’s own Church that Jesus prayed that we all have unity within as He and the Father are one. I have not abandoned grace but came into the fullness of grace and truth that Protestants like you refuse and do not even desire. Being obedient to Christ and His Church and indeed collaborating with His will does not give us security but only by His grace are we saved as it is by His grace and our gift of “anamnesis” that we even respond to His grace.
(chris g)It seems that you are not able to recieve Jesus' own words concerning His "flesh and blood".
John 6:65 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Cristoiglesia) Obviously as I have already explained such an interpretation as yours in regards to this statement of Jesus is classic eisegesis. How can you reconcile that the “flesh profiteth nothing” when Jesus previously said that it gave us eternal life? Quite a contradiction in Christ’s teaching that your eisegesis has created, don’t you think?
(cris g) I see that you claim to have once been protestant and I wonder why you left?
(Cristoiglesia) The short answer is that I grew in faith and knowledge of God’s Word. But the more complete answer is as follows:
Truly an example of the truth of Scriptures says one of the most basic things about our relation with our creator; it is the fact that He has endowed everyone with an innate knowledge of His will. In the OT and in the NT we learn of God’s preparation of our souls to receive him when the Scriptures speak of the law being written on the hearts of each of us, Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic, Baptist, Jehovah Witness, Church of Christ and Mormon. It does not matter. Even the animist in the deepest rain forest knows of God and is drawn to His will. Missionaries will tell you of the common phenomenon of those who they come to minister to and preach the Gospel to these people of them being miraculously prepared to receive His Word and do His will. This law on our hearts is a portal where we can receive Him through the Holy Spirit and the forum from which our spirit can receive His Spirit. This is why the Orthodox speak of knowing where the Church is but not where it is not. This is why the Catholic Church speaks of salvation from outside the Church, but not without the Church and Christ being possible including the different ways the Spirit of God comes into ones life through Baptism. One cannot escape the Spirit of God drawing him to His Church for eternity anymore than one can live by escaping oxygen to animate their flesh in the world. Doing God’s will is what we are created to do and through His Word and the Church, we know that His will is that we be one and come to Him as children, just as we are into His Church, wherever and however that knowledge reaches our soul.
It seems that for many of us who are Christians that there are stages that the Holy Spirit takes us through. In my apologetics work I see this time and time again and I even experienced it in my own long journey home to the Catholic Church. It seems that for many that they have an abiding love for our Savior and a fire to do His will which defies being quenched. This hunger or burning desire cannot be satiated in that we always desire more of God, more of His love, more of His knowledge and more of His grace in our lives. This is not a selfish hunger or desire but one of doing His will by His Spirit being one with ours. It is this desire to do His will that makes us wanting when we are not in communion with His Church for the fullness of understanding His Word, for the fullness of worship and the fullness of His presence in our life. It is a completeness of our Spiritual journey safe in the bosom of His Church from the lies and deceit of the world from the angel of darkness.
As the Spirit draws us to His Church by bringing us ever closer, our spirit cooperates with the Spirit of God and we become angry in our flesh and lash out at the destiny of God’s will which is His Church. There comes a struggle from within where we resist this calling. We may go through a period where we struggle to deny the teachings of the Church, searching the Scriptures to find contradictions and our itching ears may seek out and find those who reinforce our hatred for the Church for others this search is more private but just as intense. Having no success at proving the Church false with Scriptures and realizing that what we started by our search to reinforce our doubts of his Church has instead only made us question our own beliefs. This makes us even angrier, for many of us this means abandoning beliefs that we have held our whole lives which are the beliefs of our ancestors which is very frightening. This is hard teaching by the Spirit which we struggle to accept or to deny.
Reflecting on this I think of those in the first century who came to the Church from diverse backgrounds both Jew and Gentile that must have faced the same struggles. Indeed the Scriptures give us the example of Saul’s conversion experience where a man filled with hatred was humbled by the miraculous might and love of God on the road to Damascus. Did he love God any less as a Pharisaical Jew or just more truly as a Christian coming within God’s will? I believe his love remained the same but that on that road to Damascus he came into the fullness of God’s will in his life. Here, in St. Paul, we have the example one of the Church’s most ardent persecutors becoming its most faithful and prolific missionary and changing the world by doing God’s will, not in hatred for another but in the love he found in His conversion. God worked through him in inspiration to add to His Word and bring into understanding the New Covenant to the world.
When we fail in our personal efforts to reinforce our desire for the Church to be false by studying Scriptures we then turn to history of the early Church and study the teaching of the fathers and the proclamations of the Church councils. Surely, we think, this will prove that our suspicions of Christ’s Church are true. These are the men, some of whom were trained by the disciples of our Lord, who were closest to the incarnate Word. But to our dismay we instead find that studying their teaching and their beliefs still points to the veracity of the Church. Some during this process may even suggest that Christ’s Church became apostate later but then at some point we are forced by the Spirit , if we are so blessed by His grace, to reflect on Christ’s promises to His Church which reveals that our desire to find apostasy can only be false, if we embrace the truth of His Word. For, it is not His Word that denies His Church, as some would claim, but instead that convicts our spirit of the Church’s veracity. For a time we may become even more angry and start to pray about what we have learned and ask for God’s guidance to the truth expecting God to show us what we have missed or overlooked in our study that will convict us once and for all of the apostasy of the Church and the falseness of the Church’s teaching. Instead, for those with ears to hear and a continuing desire through God’s grace we go through the most humbling experience of our lives where we must come to reality that through our pridefulness that we have remained for so long in denial of the truth and God’s will that we unite with His Church.
I think that this process is the culmination of the prayer that so many of us made to God when we were called and convicted into His service, whether layman or clergy. It was a prayer for Him to use us for His glory, for so many of us after our conversion become apologists and reach out to others to encourage others to study the Scriptures and the history of the Church and be empathetic to what the Bible reveals about the faith of the first Christians, which were Catholic in every sense of the word and Word.
Catholics only love their enemies but one may observe that the hatred only moves in one direction and probably occurs for at least two reasons. For those still on their journey home they are waiting for their personal epiphany as was received by St. Paul but I am reminded of what Jesus said to St. Thomas:
(Joh 20:29 DRB) Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen and have believed.
For some that epiphany will indeed come when Christ will stand before us and allow us to put our fingers within His wounds and will be blessed. Others of us come to Him as children, surrendering completely to Him and are blessed to release our pridefulness and with humbleness, accept His truth, His promises and His Church.
Why does hatred only move in one direction, for me it is because I see those hating the Church as being on the same journey as I? I was once where they were, thinking I hated the Church when in fact I was fighting against the Spirit moving in my life. I failed to recognize that I was being blessed. In the process I have learned more than anything else that it is impossible to love God and His Church and at the same time to hate those who despise His Church. Perhaps it is the fullness of faith, of worship or practice but most probably the exercise of His greatest commandment to love for all humanity for as He loves us we are to love others. The greatest expression of this love and the fruit of our conversion is the antithesis of our flesh which is to love our enemies. For, it is written, the Christian is to love even those who hate His Church. May the Lord bless us all?
In Christ,
Fr. Joseph
15 May, 2010
30 April, 2010
Discussion of the difference between the assurance of salvation taught by Calvin and the Church
(Dannyboy) I know I am saved.
(Cristoiglesia) I understand that you have been deceived by Calvinist teaching into thinking that you have already been saved but that will not occur until your death and judgment according to biblical teaching. Only our sovereign God declares one saved and that is done at judgment. We cannot proclaim ourselves or others saved without prideful presumption. You are looking for cheap grace but that grace was earned for us by our Lord at Calvary and carried a heavy price of suffering to atone for our sins and open the door to heaven for us through our repentance.
(Dannyboy) And, I know that if you think you are saved because you do enough works, and teach others that they can lose their salvation by works (and you clearly do).
(Cristoiglesia) Why would you make such a presumption except that you were influenced by false teachers and believed their lies about Christ’s Church? Works salvation or Pelagianism is a heresy condemned by the Church.
"If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema."
-Council of Trent, Sixth Session, Canon I
As you can see, what you accuse Catholics of is not true and that the Church teaches the exact opposite of what you have been told and believe.
(Dannyboy)If salvation can be lost by works, then it can be gained by works. You are teaching salvation isn't something we are promised or is a gift (though you will probably say you do). You're teaching that we won't really know until we get to heaven, depending on the "condition of our soul."
(Cristoiglesia) Well, as I have just pointed out to you, you are coming to erroneous conclusions by using a false premise. The Church teaches that we do not earn or lose salvation by works. Salvation is a promise, not a current one but instead as future promise based on our continuation of faith until final salvation at judgment. If we die in God’s grace with a sanctified soul we merit heaven, If we do not we merit hell. This is the teaching of our Lord.
(Dannyboy) How do you know the condition of your soul? I know the condition of mine because Christ has died for my sins. Perhaps He hasn't died for yours, and you don't believe He has died for the sins of those who you tell must have a "right soul condition" upon death in order to be saved, at that time. But, I know I am saved, and it is well with my soul.
(Cristoiglesia) Christ died so that everyone’s sins may be forgiven but the Bible teaches that there can be a false assurance of salvation. Here is what Jesus said:
Matthew 7:21 (King James Version)
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
St. Paul questioned his own salvation on several occasions when he spoke of his walk in faith as a race where one who is successful wins heaven. Then St. Paul says the following:
1 Corinthians 9:27 (King James Version)
27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Now, let us look at what St. Paul taught to those who were already saved or had already come to initial salvation:
2 Corinthians 5:10 (King James Version)
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Romans 2:6 (King James Version)
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Romans 11:22 (King James Version)
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
This is the teaching of the inspired Word of God and not the teaching of John Calvin that you place above God’s Word. We are not judged only by the one act of coming to faith and accepting Jesus as our personal savior but instead how we respond to His grace through our life. There is no doubt that we are saved by faith and this has been the constant teaching of the Church through its entire history. Where the Protestants depart from orthodoxy and the Bible is when they claim that we are saved by faith alone. Such an assumption is clearly forbidden in Scriptures.
(Dannyboy) I *am* born again. Not going to be... not hope to be... I *am* born again. And, I *am* saved. If you aren't... then you aren't.
(Cristoiglesia) No, you are not an exception to Scriptures. There are no exceptions and everyone is saved in the same plan of salvation put into action by Christ’s salvific work on the cross.
In the Bible it tells us that Nicodemus asked Jesus what must be done to be saved. Jesus said the following:
John 3:5 (King James Version)
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Now, if you are a convicted follower of Calvin you would say that the water is of no benefit which is another departure from orthodoxy as the orthodox Christian view is that both the water and the Holy Spirit are joined As one in the Sacrament of Baptism established by our Lord. It is not just the conviction from the Holy Spirit that is necessary but the water as well. You would say that the water is unnecessary but Jesus did not teach that the Holy Spirit alone is what is necessary for salvation but that the two are joined as one. His teaching does not say that an intellectual assent is all that is necessary but that the water is equally necessary.
Now, as a true Calvinist you probably believe that there is no act that can assist your salvation and that your acceptance of Christ is all that is needed. Let us look at St. Paul’s letter to the Romans:
Romans 5:2 (King James Version)
2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Now, if Calvin was right and that by our one assent to faith we are assured of salvation then why is St. Paul saying that we “rejoice in hope” for glory if nothing can separate us from heaven.
St. Paul explains his meaning here:
Romans 8:24 (King James Version)
24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
The reason we have hope is because even though we are in the Spirit we know that there is a chance that we may lose it through mortal sin.
So, the Catholic would respond to a Calvinist asking if they are saved by answering, "I am redeemed by the blood of Christ and as St. Paul taught I am working out my salvation with fear and trembling with hopeful confidence, lacking false assurance as the Church has taught from the beginning of the Church at Pentecost.
(Dannyboy) That's not presumption. You said you aren't saved. You can't know until you find out what the condition of your soul is. I'm sorry you don't know the condition of your soul, as I know the condition of my soul. The condition of my soul is covered by the blood of Christ. He is in me. Has been since the day I was saved. I'm sorry this is not the case for you, as you have told me.
(Cristoiglesia) I said my salvation is not complete until death and judgment and that it is a process and not a one time event. I am being sanctified by His grace and I cooperate with that grace by confession of my sins and reconciling back into the familial relationship with Him when I fail by the seduction of temptation.
To Catholic Christians and many other Christians, justification is understood differently. We understand from Scriptures that justification is not the covering of sin but the eradication and the beginning of true sanctification and simultaneous renewal. The soul is transformed into goodness instead of being a sinful soul with sins covered by Christ’s blood. We see Scriptures saying that forgiveness results in a complete removal of sins. The only time the Bible mentions the covering of sin is in the context of one man’s sin being forgiven by another. One should note that we have no power to forgive another’s sin, therefore the context is that we do all we can and cover or overlook those sins against us. In relation to God and His removal of sin the Scriptures use quite different terminology such as “blot out”, “blotting out”, “clears away” and “takes away”.
Catholics see justification as a rebirth and supernatural life in a former sinner:
(Joh 3:5 DRB) Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(Tit 3:5 DRB) Not by the works of justice which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration and renovation of the Holy Ghost.
That creates an inner renewal of the soul:
(Eph 4:23 DRB) And be renewed in spirit of your mind:
Resulting in complete sanctification:
(1Co 6:11 DRB) And such some of you were. But you are washed: but you are sanctified: but you are justified: in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God.
Through this glorious process initiated by God’s grace the soul becomes beautiful, holy and worthy of heaven where nothing unclean is allowed. It is not an ugly sinful soul hidden under the blood of Jesus but instead one sanctified by Him and created anew for His glory.
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(Cristoiglesia) I understand that you have been deceived by Calvinist teaching into thinking that you have already been saved but that will not occur until your death and judgment according to biblical teaching. Only our sovereign God declares one saved and that is done at judgment. We cannot proclaim ourselves or others saved without prideful presumption. You are looking for cheap grace but that grace was earned for us by our Lord at Calvary and carried a heavy price of suffering to atone for our sins and open the door to heaven for us through our repentance.
(Dannyboy) And, I know that if you think you are saved because you do enough works, and teach others that they can lose their salvation by works (and you clearly do).
(Cristoiglesia) Why would you make such a presumption except that you were influenced by false teachers and believed their lies about Christ’s Church? Works salvation or Pelagianism is a heresy condemned by the Church.
"If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema."
-Council of Trent, Sixth Session, Canon I
As you can see, what you accuse Catholics of is not true and that the Church teaches the exact opposite of what you have been told and believe.
(Dannyboy)If salvation can be lost by works, then it can be gained by works. You are teaching salvation isn't something we are promised or is a gift (though you will probably say you do). You're teaching that we won't really know until we get to heaven, depending on the "condition of our soul."
(Cristoiglesia) Well, as I have just pointed out to you, you are coming to erroneous conclusions by using a false premise. The Church teaches that we do not earn or lose salvation by works. Salvation is a promise, not a current one but instead as future promise based on our continuation of faith until final salvation at judgment. If we die in God’s grace with a sanctified soul we merit heaven, If we do not we merit hell. This is the teaching of our Lord.
(Dannyboy) How do you know the condition of your soul? I know the condition of mine because Christ has died for my sins. Perhaps He hasn't died for yours, and you don't believe He has died for the sins of those who you tell must have a "right soul condition" upon death in order to be saved, at that time. But, I know I am saved, and it is well with my soul.
(Cristoiglesia) Christ died so that everyone’s sins may be forgiven but the Bible teaches that there can be a false assurance of salvation. Here is what Jesus said:
Matthew 7:21 (King James Version)
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
St. Paul questioned his own salvation on several occasions when he spoke of his walk in faith as a race where one who is successful wins heaven. Then St. Paul says the following:
1 Corinthians 9:27 (King James Version)
27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Now, let us look at what St. Paul taught to those who were already saved or had already come to initial salvation:
2 Corinthians 5:10 (King James Version)
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Romans 2:6 (King James Version)
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Romans 11:22 (King James Version)
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
This is the teaching of the inspired Word of God and not the teaching of John Calvin that you place above God’s Word. We are not judged only by the one act of coming to faith and accepting Jesus as our personal savior but instead how we respond to His grace through our life. There is no doubt that we are saved by faith and this has been the constant teaching of the Church through its entire history. Where the Protestants depart from orthodoxy and the Bible is when they claim that we are saved by faith alone. Such an assumption is clearly forbidden in Scriptures.
(Dannyboy) I *am* born again. Not going to be... not hope to be... I *am* born again. And, I *am* saved. If you aren't... then you aren't.
(Cristoiglesia) No, you are not an exception to Scriptures. There are no exceptions and everyone is saved in the same plan of salvation put into action by Christ’s salvific work on the cross.
In the Bible it tells us that Nicodemus asked Jesus what must be done to be saved. Jesus said the following:
John 3:5 (King James Version)
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Now, if you are a convicted follower of Calvin you would say that the water is of no benefit which is another departure from orthodoxy as the orthodox Christian view is that both the water and the Holy Spirit are joined As one in the Sacrament of Baptism established by our Lord. It is not just the conviction from the Holy Spirit that is necessary but the water as well. You would say that the water is unnecessary but Jesus did not teach that the Holy Spirit alone is what is necessary for salvation but that the two are joined as one. His teaching does not say that an intellectual assent is all that is necessary but that the water is equally necessary.
Now, as a true Calvinist you probably believe that there is no act that can assist your salvation and that your acceptance of Christ is all that is needed. Let us look at St. Paul’s letter to the Romans:
Romans 5:2 (King James Version)
2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Now, if Calvin was right and that by our one assent to faith we are assured of salvation then why is St. Paul saying that we “rejoice in hope” for glory if nothing can separate us from heaven.
St. Paul explains his meaning here:
Romans 8:24 (King James Version)
24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
The reason we have hope is because even though we are in the Spirit we know that there is a chance that we may lose it through mortal sin.
So, the Catholic would respond to a Calvinist asking if they are saved by answering, "I am redeemed by the blood of Christ and as St. Paul taught I am working out my salvation with fear and trembling with hopeful confidence, lacking false assurance as the Church has taught from the beginning of the Church at Pentecost.
(Dannyboy) That's not presumption. You said you aren't saved. You can't know until you find out what the condition of your soul is. I'm sorry you don't know the condition of your soul, as I know the condition of my soul. The condition of my soul is covered by the blood of Christ. He is in me. Has been since the day I was saved. I'm sorry this is not the case for you, as you have told me.
(Cristoiglesia) I said my salvation is not complete until death and judgment and that it is a process and not a one time event. I am being sanctified by His grace and I cooperate with that grace by confession of my sins and reconciling back into the familial relationship with Him when I fail by the seduction of temptation.
To Catholic Christians and many other Christians, justification is understood differently. We understand from Scriptures that justification is not the covering of sin but the eradication and the beginning of true sanctification and simultaneous renewal. The soul is transformed into goodness instead of being a sinful soul with sins covered by Christ’s blood. We see Scriptures saying that forgiveness results in a complete removal of sins. The only time the Bible mentions the covering of sin is in the context of one man’s sin being forgiven by another. One should note that we have no power to forgive another’s sin, therefore the context is that we do all we can and cover or overlook those sins against us. In relation to God and His removal of sin the Scriptures use quite different terminology such as “blot out”, “blotting out”, “clears away” and “takes away”.
Catholics see justification as a rebirth and supernatural life in a former sinner:
(Joh 3:5 DRB) Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(Tit 3:5 DRB) Not by the works of justice which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration and renovation of the Holy Ghost.
That creates an inner renewal of the soul:
(Eph 4:23 DRB) And be renewed in spirit of your mind:
Resulting in complete sanctification:
(1Co 6:11 DRB) And such some of you were. But you are washed: but you are sanctified: but you are justified: in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God.
Through this glorious process initiated by God’s grace the soul becomes beautiful, holy and worthy of heaven where nothing unclean is allowed. It is not an ugly sinful soul hidden under the blood of Jesus but instead one sanctified by Him and created anew for His glory.
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
29 April, 2010
A desperate and unjustified attack on Christ's Church
(SPLTexas) You are testifying to the fact that your faith is unfounded:
(Cristoiglesia) Well, let’s see if you are right.
(SPLTexas) You said not that you believe in the words of God and Jesus in the bible but man made doctrines and rituals of men disguised as religion.
(Cristoiglesia) No, I never said that. There are no man-made doctrines in the Catholic Church and I am a Catholic. I am faithful to the teaching of Jesus, the disciples and the teaching authority of Christ’s Church. It is rather odd that you would make such an accusation since you are in a man-made sect teaching man-made doctrines and are in protest of the only Church that Jesus and the disciples founded which is the Church that was given the promises by Jesus to be the enduring Church, free from apostasy and recorded in the Bible to be the “pillar and foundation of the truth.
(SPLTexas) Where in the Bible do you find rosaries,
(Cristoiglesia) Where in the Bible do you find it stating that it is the regula fidei? What do you have against prayer? Show me in the Bible where it says not to pray.
The hermeneutic principal I see used by non Catholics time and time again is the proof text method. In almost all cases that is a methodology that results in eisegesis and not exegesis.
The proof text model employed in interpretation ignores context and results in simply an anthology of verses that support unorthodox doctrines like soul sleep and to a lesser extent Sola Scriptura. Ignored is the fact that without their context they have no meaning. In other words, one takes a theme to support and search for verses with certain key words that epigrammatically coincide with the doctrine and not for their contextual contribution to understanding. Consequently, as we see in this use of Scriptures, there is an allegorization as an adjustment to the plain meaning within context creating a usage of the text foreign to its intended meaning. This almost always results in eisegesis.
Systematic theology deals with the teaching of the Bible as a whole body of work instead of individual books or individual verses. This is why one should consider not just those verses which support one’s views but how one deals with those that are contradictory to one’s teaching or understanding. Can the doctrine one believes pass the test or scrutiny of a systematic study of the doctrine?
There seems to be an evolution of Catholic hermeneutics. It started with the Alexandrian school and is apparent in the writings of St. Titus Flavius Clement. He believed that the Scriptures hid the sense, and that the holy mysteries and prophesies were hidden in parables. Origen was a disciple of St. Clement and coined the threefold sense of Scripture: corporeal, psychical and the spiritual in his work “On First Principles”. This was the first written work on hermeneutics.
Around the end of the third century there was the Antiochian school founded by Lucian of Samosata or Diodorus. It produced two of the greatest theologians of the Church, Theodore of Mopsuestia and John Chrysostom. This school expands the teaching of the Alexandrian school to include “theoria” which comes from a Greek word meaning “to see”. This method of interpretation contended that the spiritual sense is inseparable from the literal sense. There was a concern in this school of being overly literalistic or going too far in allegory as to lose the plain meaning of the Scripture. To the Antiochians Scripture had only one meaning which possessed the attributes of literal, spiritual, historical and typological. They believed that the aim of exegesis involved spiritual as well as doctrinal enlightenment in conjunction with historical and philological facts.
The third school in the patristic period was the Western School which had elements of the two previous schools. This school included St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. Ambrose and St. Hilary. Most of what we know of this school is contained in St. Augustine’s work ”De Doctrina Christiana”. St. Augustine introduced the idea of “regula fidei” or the rule of faith which are the collection of doctrines of the Church. The proper use of the regula fidei presupposes that the meaning of Scripture has already been decided sufficiently in order to recognize that the passage does belong to the doctrine being used as a “rule of faith’ to measure it. Otherwise St. Augustine said that there was an enormous chance of eisegesis. Eventually in the Western school there were four terms that won out in their hermeneutical approach which were: literal, allegorical, tropological, and analogical. This was illustrated in John Cassian’s “Conferences:
Jerusalem literally means city of the Jews, allegorically Jerusalem means Church, tropologically Jerusalem is the soul, and anagogically Jerusalem is our heavenly home. He emphasized that the literal sense is always the precedent in interpretation.
Personally, I do not have a problem with the grammatico-historical method of exegesis but I use what is called the Syntactical-Theological method by Walter Kaiser, Jr., which combines systematic theology with biblical exegesis. When Walter Kaiser coined the name of this methodology he said, “ Because the Bible purports to be the Word from God the task of locating meaning is not finished until one apprehends the purpose, scope, or reason (indeed, the theology) for which the text was written.”
(SPLTexas) worshipping mary,
(Cristoiglesia) You certainly won’t find the worship of anyone or anything but God in the Catholic Church. Such is forbidden in the Scriptures and in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
(SPLTexas) praying to dead people,
(Cristoiglesia) If you will check Scriptures you will find that necromancy is forbidden in the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says,
All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead, or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums ["channelers"] all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone. (CCC 2116)
(SPLTexas) scapula,
(Cristoiglesia) I think you mean scapular. This can refer to two different things. It is usually part of the habit of monastic orders and is symbolic of an apron. It can also be a devotional Sacramental that reminds the wearer to pray constantly.
(SPLTexas) legion of mary,
(Cristoiglesia) I do not have a lot of knowledge of this organization but what I know is that it is a organization of laity, traditionally mostly women who have ministries for mostly poor women and children. They are particularly active with the prostitutes in the Philippines in getting them out of the life of prostitution by teaching them skills and getting them education.
(SPLTexas) prarying to statues,
(Cristoiglesia) You will not find such a practice in the Catholic Church as the Church forbids idolatry in any form:
Catechism of the Catholic Church
Idolatry
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46
2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47
(SPLTexas) depending on perverted men for forgiveness.
(Cristoiglesia) This is a very strange accusation coming from a professed Christian. We depend on Jesus only for forgiveness and He is certainly not perverted. Jesus gave the authority and the responsibility to the Church to forgive the sins of man. Jesus told the Church that what sins we forgive are forgiven in heaven and what sins we retain are retained in heaven. He expected the Church to fulfill that authority and this is the only method of forgiveness contained in Scriptures. Protestants reject this teaching by Jesus saying that they prefer to ask Jesus directly for forgiveness and by doing so they are abdicating being obedient to Christ’s teaching. I think that most do this out of pride by not wanting others to know their sin but Jesus knowing the carnal reluctance to admit our sin uses this as a sign of obedience and devotion in serving God. Certainly it is an embarrassment to expose our soul to others but it also makes it less likely that we will commit that sin again. The priest, as in the other Sacraments, is acting in “persona Christi”, which means that he is the hands and mouth of God when He grants absolution. If the confession is not from a contrite heart there is no forgiveness.
(SPLTexas) If you substitute the blood of Jesus for forgiveness with a man made ritual, and if you substitute the words in the Bible that God and Jesus spoke with man made doctrines, rituals and talismans, then how can you enter the kingdom of God.
(Cristoiglesia) You need to explain what you mean here by a man-made ritual. Are you saying that practices established by Jesus are man-made? If you are then you are denying His divinity. Think about it, would Jesus have given the authority to forgive sins to the priests if he did not expect this authority to be used, especially in the absence of any other teaching of a different method.
We can discuss man-made doctrines when you find them in the Catholic Church with some specificity. So far you have been unable to identify one but instead you are creating straw men and calling them Catholic doctrine. I can not comment on rituals unless you explain what you are calling a ritual and why you are opposed to them.
I assume that the talismans you speak of are the sacramental’s that are used by some to remind them to pray to God. All Catholics know that any protection they offer comes not from the Sacramental but from their prayers. We believe as Catholics that God grants our prayers. Why do you think that devotion and obedience to God through prayer prevents one from entering the kingdom of God?
(SPLTexas) You have made the sacrifice that Jesus made of no effect through holding on to man made lies that do not bring people to repentance and changed lives by the Blood of the Lamb and the Power of the Holy Spirit.
(Cristoiglesia) Before you can make such a claim you must identify these supposed lies. I cannot comment on vacuous accusations or ambiguous theological opinions. But, I will say that I know of no lies taught by Christ’s Church as I searched for them for 30 years before becoming Catholic. People have been coming to repentance in the Catholic Church for 2000 years and long before the Protestant rebellion when the protesters of the Church turned Secular Humanists decided they could no longer endure the sound doctrine in Christ’s Church and founded their own counterfeit sects that continue to show their bad fruit with over 30,000 different divisions in the Corpus Christi each claiming their own truth and heresy. But, at the same time the Church that Christ founded, the Catholic Church, remains true to the commission of Christ and is the recipient of His promises.
(SPLTexas) If you die in your sins, you will go to hell where the worms do not die and the fire is never quenched. Do not gamble with eternity by holding on to man made teachings and of devils mean to keep people from their God and Savior, Jesus doctrines.
(Cristoiglesia) Yes sin separates us from the familial relationship with Christ and also separates us from our eternal promise. So far you have been unable to identify any man-made teaching in the Catholic Church unless you are calling the teaching of Jesus as man-made. When you can identify such a teaching you can then make such a claim.
Everyone who dies without a sanctified soul can expect an eternity in hell. Perhaps it is you who should take your own advice as you are in protest of the only Church that Jesus founded. You admittedly suggest that you cannot endure the sound doctrine contained in Christ’s Church and truly are contending that your man-made sect is superior and with more veracity than the Church founded by our Lord. It sounds as if by your own testimony that you should not be a gambler with your own eternity. You are clearly outside of God’s will because Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane before His arrest and crucifixion that we all be one in His Church as He and the Father are one.
(SPLTexas) You are like Saul before He met Jesus.
(Cristoiglesia) And you are like the unbelievers or proto-Protestants who were former disciples that walked away from Jesus after His colloquy at Capernaum. They rejected His teaching just like you do because of their own pride and lack of faith and obedience. I am not like Saul at all but instead I am faithful to Jesus like Paul in Christ’s Church. I was like Saul when I was a Protestant and acted just like you in persecuting Christ’s Church. May our Lord forgive me.
(SPLTexas) Talk with Jesus and ask Him to forgive you and fill you with His Holy Spirit to teach you truth from His Spirit and Words, not from men.
(Cristoiglesia) I did and He brought me to His Church kicking and screaming that I did not want to be Catholic.
(SPLTexas) Stop quoting men - quote the Bible - KJV or earliest. The cathecism is not the Bible - I am familiar with it, and you are quotiing the blind following the blind.
(Cristoiglesia) Again it is you that reject the Church founded by Jesus for the doctrines of men. I do quote the Bible but the difference between you and I is that I understand it through the teaching authority that Jesus left on earth. You must come to understand that the Bible is written by Christ’s Church and is about Christ’s Church. The Church existed for 400 years and grew under oral teaching through apostolic succession. Why would you think that the Catechism is the Bible? Catholics do not.
(SPLTexas) Forget the pharisetical teaching and let Jesus write His laws in heart!
(Cristoiglesia) Do you even know what that means? Perhaps this will help you understand.
(Deu 30:11) This commandment, that I command thee this day is not above thee, nor far off from thee:
(Deu 30:12) Nor is it in heaven, that thou shouldst say: Which of us can go up to heaven to bring it unto us, and we may hear and fulfil it in work?
(Deu 30:13) Nor is it beyond the sea: that thou mayst excuse thyself, and say: Which of us can cross the sea, and bring it unto us: that we may hear, and do that which is commanded?
(Deu 30:14) But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth and in thy heart, that thou mayst do it.
This is the teaching of Moses where Moses tells the people the importance of the law being upon their hearts and how it is essential for God’s plan for humanity. We rarely see reference to these verses because they speak most profoundly against Calvinist predestination that says only some are predestined to salvation and others are predestined to hell. If the law is written on everyone’s heart by God, then for what purpose, except to provide a pathway to eternity in Christ. I heard a preacher in a small Pentecostal Church in the mountains of Kentucky say that the law on our hearts was like the Rosetta stone allowing us to understand the things of God, that the law contains the very concept of faith and this grace and this Godliness coexists with our inherent sinfulness until we are washed by the blood of the Lamb with our surrender and become pure of heart within God’s law and consequently within His will. We can not be within God’s will without obedience to this imputed law that along with inherited sin intuitively shows us the need for a Savior, Christ Jesus. This is why we have no excuse for our lack of surrender to God because He is not only evident in His creation but He is a part of our very being upon our creation.
How could one understand God’s demands upon us without this law? How can we understand God’s will for us to live within righteousness and justice if not for this law that abides always in our conscience? We often think of God’s law as something without us but in fact it is eternal within our being that calls to intuition the will of God. This is essential for without the law we can not know God.
Now the law on our hearts should not be confused with those external laws of men. The law written on our hearts is the law that makes us understand righteousness, justice, love and reconciliation. The law in our hearts is not the external law that can result in legalism where the letter of the law is followed at the expense of the spirit of the law. There is no other means by which we know His voice when He speaks to our spirit.
(Heb 8:10) For this is the testament which I will make to the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my laws into their mind: and in their heart will I write them. And I will be their God: and they shall be my people.
(Rom 10:6) But the justice which is of faith, speaketh thus: Say not in thy heart: Who shall ascend into heaven? That is to bring Christ down;
(Rom 10:7) Or who shall descend into the deep? That is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.
(Rom 10:8) But what saith the scripture? The word is nigh thee; even in thy mouth and in thy heart. This is the word of faith, which we preach.
(Rom 10:9) For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(Col 1:27) To whom God would make known the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ, in you the hope of glory.
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(Cristoiglesia) Well, let’s see if you are right.
(SPLTexas) You said not that you believe in the words of God and Jesus in the bible but man made doctrines and rituals of men disguised as religion.
(Cristoiglesia) No, I never said that. There are no man-made doctrines in the Catholic Church and I am a Catholic. I am faithful to the teaching of Jesus, the disciples and the teaching authority of Christ’s Church. It is rather odd that you would make such an accusation since you are in a man-made sect teaching man-made doctrines and are in protest of the only Church that Jesus and the disciples founded which is the Church that was given the promises by Jesus to be the enduring Church, free from apostasy and recorded in the Bible to be the “pillar and foundation of the truth.
(SPLTexas) Where in the Bible do you find rosaries,
(Cristoiglesia) Where in the Bible do you find it stating that it is the regula fidei? What do you have against prayer? Show me in the Bible where it says not to pray.
The hermeneutic principal I see used by non Catholics time and time again is the proof text method. In almost all cases that is a methodology that results in eisegesis and not exegesis.
The proof text model employed in interpretation ignores context and results in simply an anthology of verses that support unorthodox doctrines like soul sleep and to a lesser extent Sola Scriptura. Ignored is the fact that without their context they have no meaning. In other words, one takes a theme to support and search for verses with certain key words that epigrammatically coincide with the doctrine and not for their contextual contribution to understanding. Consequently, as we see in this use of Scriptures, there is an allegorization as an adjustment to the plain meaning within context creating a usage of the text foreign to its intended meaning. This almost always results in eisegesis.
Systematic theology deals with the teaching of the Bible as a whole body of work instead of individual books or individual verses. This is why one should consider not just those verses which support one’s views but how one deals with those that are contradictory to one’s teaching or understanding. Can the doctrine one believes pass the test or scrutiny of a systematic study of the doctrine?
There seems to be an evolution of Catholic hermeneutics. It started with the Alexandrian school and is apparent in the writings of St. Titus Flavius Clement. He believed that the Scriptures hid the sense, and that the holy mysteries and prophesies were hidden in parables. Origen was a disciple of St. Clement and coined the threefold sense of Scripture: corporeal, psychical and the spiritual in his work “On First Principles”. This was the first written work on hermeneutics.
Around the end of the third century there was the Antiochian school founded by Lucian of Samosata or Diodorus. It produced two of the greatest theologians of the Church, Theodore of Mopsuestia and John Chrysostom. This school expands the teaching of the Alexandrian school to include “theoria” which comes from a Greek word meaning “to see”. This method of interpretation contended that the spiritual sense is inseparable from the literal sense. There was a concern in this school of being overly literalistic or going too far in allegory as to lose the plain meaning of the Scripture. To the Antiochians Scripture had only one meaning which possessed the attributes of literal, spiritual, historical and typological. They believed that the aim of exegesis involved spiritual as well as doctrinal enlightenment in conjunction with historical and philological facts.
The third school in the patristic period was the Western School which had elements of the two previous schools. This school included St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. Ambrose and St. Hilary. Most of what we know of this school is contained in St. Augustine’s work ”De Doctrina Christiana”. St. Augustine introduced the idea of “regula fidei” or the rule of faith which are the collection of doctrines of the Church. The proper use of the regula fidei presupposes that the meaning of Scripture has already been decided sufficiently in order to recognize that the passage does belong to the doctrine being used as a “rule of faith’ to measure it. Otherwise St. Augustine said that there was an enormous chance of eisegesis. Eventually in the Western school there were four terms that won out in their hermeneutical approach which were: literal, allegorical, tropological, and analogical. This was illustrated in John Cassian’s “Conferences:
Jerusalem literally means city of the Jews, allegorically Jerusalem means Church, tropologically Jerusalem is the soul, and anagogically Jerusalem is our heavenly home. He emphasized that the literal sense is always the precedent in interpretation.
Personally, I do not have a problem with the grammatico-historical method of exegesis but I use what is called the Syntactical-Theological method by Walter Kaiser, Jr., which combines systematic theology with biblical exegesis. When Walter Kaiser coined the name of this methodology he said, “ Because the Bible purports to be the Word from God the task of locating meaning is not finished until one apprehends the purpose, scope, or reason (indeed, the theology) for which the text was written.”
(SPLTexas) worshipping mary,
(Cristoiglesia) You certainly won’t find the worship of anyone or anything but God in the Catholic Church. Such is forbidden in the Scriptures and in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
(SPLTexas) praying to dead people,
(Cristoiglesia) If you will check Scriptures you will find that necromancy is forbidden in the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says,
All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead, or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums ["channelers"] all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone. (CCC 2116)
(SPLTexas) scapula,
(Cristoiglesia) I think you mean scapular. This can refer to two different things. It is usually part of the habit of monastic orders and is symbolic of an apron. It can also be a devotional Sacramental that reminds the wearer to pray constantly.
(SPLTexas) legion of mary,
(Cristoiglesia) I do not have a lot of knowledge of this organization but what I know is that it is a organization of laity, traditionally mostly women who have ministries for mostly poor women and children. They are particularly active with the prostitutes in the Philippines in getting them out of the life of prostitution by teaching them skills and getting them education.
(SPLTexas) prarying to statues,
(Cristoiglesia) You will not find such a practice in the Catholic Church as the Church forbids idolatry in any form:
Catechism of the Catholic Church
Idolatry
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46
2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47
(SPLTexas) depending on perverted men for forgiveness.
(Cristoiglesia) This is a very strange accusation coming from a professed Christian. We depend on Jesus only for forgiveness and He is certainly not perverted. Jesus gave the authority and the responsibility to the Church to forgive the sins of man. Jesus told the Church that what sins we forgive are forgiven in heaven and what sins we retain are retained in heaven. He expected the Church to fulfill that authority and this is the only method of forgiveness contained in Scriptures. Protestants reject this teaching by Jesus saying that they prefer to ask Jesus directly for forgiveness and by doing so they are abdicating being obedient to Christ’s teaching. I think that most do this out of pride by not wanting others to know their sin but Jesus knowing the carnal reluctance to admit our sin uses this as a sign of obedience and devotion in serving God. Certainly it is an embarrassment to expose our soul to others but it also makes it less likely that we will commit that sin again. The priest, as in the other Sacraments, is acting in “persona Christi”, which means that he is the hands and mouth of God when He grants absolution. If the confession is not from a contrite heart there is no forgiveness.
(SPLTexas) If you substitute the blood of Jesus for forgiveness with a man made ritual, and if you substitute the words in the Bible that God and Jesus spoke with man made doctrines, rituals and talismans, then how can you enter the kingdom of God.
(Cristoiglesia) You need to explain what you mean here by a man-made ritual. Are you saying that practices established by Jesus are man-made? If you are then you are denying His divinity. Think about it, would Jesus have given the authority to forgive sins to the priests if he did not expect this authority to be used, especially in the absence of any other teaching of a different method.
We can discuss man-made doctrines when you find them in the Catholic Church with some specificity. So far you have been unable to identify one but instead you are creating straw men and calling them Catholic doctrine. I can not comment on rituals unless you explain what you are calling a ritual and why you are opposed to them.
I assume that the talismans you speak of are the sacramental’s that are used by some to remind them to pray to God. All Catholics know that any protection they offer comes not from the Sacramental but from their prayers. We believe as Catholics that God grants our prayers. Why do you think that devotion and obedience to God through prayer prevents one from entering the kingdom of God?
(SPLTexas) You have made the sacrifice that Jesus made of no effect through holding on to man made lies that do not bring people to repentance and changed lives by the Blood of the Lamb and the Power of the Holy Spirit.
(Cristoiglesia) Before you can make such a claim you must identify these supposed lies. I cannot comment on vacuous accusations or ambiguous theological opinions. But, I will say that I know of no lies taught by Christ’s Church as I searched for them for 30 years before becoming Catholic. People have been coming to repentance in the Catholic Church for 2000 years and long before the Protestant rebellion when the protesters of the Church turned Secular Humanists decided they could no longer endure the sound doctrine in Christ’s Church and founded their own counterfeit sects that continue to show their bad fruit with over 30,000 different divisions in the Corpus Christi each claiming their own truth and heresy. But, at the same time the Church that Christ founded, the Catholic Church, remains true to the commission of Christ and is the recipient of His promises.
(SPLTexas) If you die in your sins, you will go to hell where the worms do not die and the fire is never quenched. Do not gamble with eternity by holding on to man made teachings and of devils mean to keep people from their God and Savior, Jesus doctrines.
(Cristoiglesia) Yes sin separates us from the familial relationship with Christ and also separates us from our eternal promise. So far you have been unable to identify any man-made teaching in the Catholic Church unless you are calling the teaching of Jesus as man-made. When you can identify such a teaching you can then make such a claim.
Everyone who dies without a sanctified soul can expect an eternity in hell. Perhaps it is you who should take your own advice as you are in protest of the only Church that Jesus founded. You admittedly suggest that you cannot endure the sound doctrine contained in Christ’s Church and truly are contending that your man-made sect is superior and with more veracity than the Church founded by our Lord. It sounds as if by your own testimony that you should not be a gambler with your own eternity. You are clearly outside of God’s will because Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane before His arrest and crucifixion that we all be one in His Church as He and the Father are one.
(SPLTexas) You are like Saul before He met Jesus.
(Cristoiglesia) And you are like the unbelievers or proto-Protestants who were former disciples that walked away from Jesus after His colloquy at Capernaum. They rejected His teaching just like you do because of their own pride and lack of faith and obedience. I am not like Saul at all but instead I am faithful to Jesus like Paul in Christ’s Church. I was like Saul when I was a Protestant and acted just like you in persecuting Christ’s Church. May our Lord forgive me.
(SPLTexas) Talk with Jesus and ask Him to forgive you and fill you with His Holy Spirit to teach you truth from His Spirit and Words, not from men.
(Cristoiglesia) I did and He brought me to His Church kicking and screaming that I did not want to be Catholic.
(SPLTexas) Stop quoting men - quote the Bible - KJV or earliest. The cathecism is not the Bible - I am familiar with it, and you are quotiing the blind following the blind.
(Cristoiglesia) Again it is you that reject the Church founded by Jesus for the doctrines of men. I do quote the Bible but the difference between you and I is that I understand it through the teaching authority that Jesus left on earth. You must come to understand that the Bible is written by Christ’s Church and is about Christ’s Church. The Church existed for 400 years and grew under oral teaching through apostolic succession. Why would you think that the Catechism is the Bible? Catholics do not.
(SPLTexas) Forget the pharisetical teaching and let Jesus write His laws in heart!
(Cristoiglesia) Do you even know what that means? Perhaps this will help you understand.
(Deu 30:11) This commandment, that I command thee this day is not above thee, nor far off from thee:
(Deu 30:12) Nor is it in heaven, that thou shouldst say: Which of us can go up to heaven to bring it unto us, and we may hear and fulfil it in work?
(Deu 30:13) Nor is it beyond the sea: that thou mayst excuse thyself, and say: Which of us can cross the sea, and bring it unto us: that we may hear, and do that which is commanded?
(Deu 30:14) But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth and in thy heart, that thou mayst do it.
This is the teaching of Moses where Moses tells the people the importance of the law being upon their hearts and how it is essential for God’s plan for humanity. We rarely see reference to these verses because they speak most profoundly against Calvinist predestination that says only some are predestined to salvation and others are predestined to hell. If the law is written on everyone’s heart by God, then for what purpose, except to provide a pathway to eternity in Christ. I heard a preacher in a small Pentecostal Church in the mountains of Kentucky say that the law on our hearts was like the Rosetta stone allowing us to understand the things of God, that the law contains the very concept of faith and this grace and this Godliness coexists with our inherent sinfulness until we are washed by the blood of the Lamb with our surrender and become pure of heart within God’s law and consequently within His will. We can not be within God’s will without obedience to this imputed law that along with inherited sin intuitively shows us the need for a Savior, Christ Jesus. This is why we have no excuse for our lack of surrender to God because He is not only evident in His creation but He is a part of our very being upon our creation.
How could one understand God’s demands upon us without this law? How can we understand God’s will for us to live within righteousness and justice if not for this law that abides always in our conscience? We often think of God’s law as something without us but in fact it is eternal within our being that calls to intuition the will of God. This is essential for without the law we can not know God.
Now the law on our hearts should not be confused with those external laws of men. The law written on our hearts is the law that makes us understand righteousness, justice, love and reconciliation. The law in our hearts is not the external law that can result in legalism where the letter of the law is followed at the expense of the spirit of the law. There is no other means by which we know His voice when He speaks to our spirit.
(Heb 8:10) For this is the testament which I will make to the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my laws into their mind: and in their heart will I write them. And I will be their God: and they shall be my people.
(Rom 10:6) But the justice which is of faith, speaketh thus: Say not in thy heart: Who shall ascend into heaven? That is to bring Christ down;
(Rom 10:7) Or who shall descend into the deep? That is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.
(Rom 10:8) But what saith the scripture? The word is nigh thee; even in thy mouth and in thy heart. This is the word of faith, which we preach.
(Rom 10:9) For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(Col 1:27) To whom God would make known the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ, in you the hope of glory.
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Relationship between sin and salvation
(Dannyboy) Where do you base what a "mortal sin" is, in God's Word?
(Cristoiglesia) The following is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.
1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him. Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.
1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God's mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:
When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner's will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130
1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131
1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.
1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.
1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.
1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul's progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not break the covenant with God. With God's grace it is humanly reparable. "Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."134
While he is in the flesh, man cannot help but have at least some light sins. But do not despise these sins which we call "light": if you take them for light when you weigh them, tremble when you count them. A number of light objects makes a great mass; a number of drops fills a river; a number of grains makes a heap. What then is our hope? Above all, confession.135
1864 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.
V. THE PROLIFERATION OF SIN
1865 Sin creates a proclivity to sin; it engenders vice by repetition of the same acts. This results in perverse inclinations which cloud conscience and corrupt the concrete judgment of good and evil. Thus sin tends to reproduce itself and reinforce itself, but it cannot destroy the moral sense at its root.
1866 Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great. They are called "capital" because they engender other sins, other vices.138 They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia.
1867 The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are "sins that cry to heaven": the blood of Abel,139 the sin of the Sodomites,140 the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt,141 the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan,142 injustice to the wage earner.143
1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
- by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
- by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
- by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
- by protecting evil-doers.
1869 Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. "Structures of sin" are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a "social sin."144
IN BRIEF
1870 "God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all" (Rom 11:32
).
1871 Sin is an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law (St. Augustine, Faust 22: PL 42, 418). It is an offense against God. It rises up against God in a disobedience contrary to the obedience of Christ.
1872 Sin is an act contrary to reason. It wounds man's nature and injures human solidarity.
1873 The root of all sins lies in man's heart. The kinds and the gravity of sins are determined principally by their objects.
1874 To choose deliberately - that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death.
1875 Venial sin constitutes a moral disorder that is reparable by charity, which it allows to subsist in us.
1876 The repetition of sins - even venial ones - engenders vices, among which are the capital sins.
________________________________________
113 Cf. Lk 15.
114 Mt 1:21.
115 Mt 26:28.
116 St. Augustine, Sermo 169, 11, 13: PL 38, 923.
117 1 Jn 8-9.
118 Rom 5:20.
119 Rom 5:21.
120 John Paul II, DeV 31 # 2.
121 St. Augustine, Contra Faustum 22: PL 42, 418; St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I-II, 71, 6.
122 Ps 51:4.
123 Gen 3:5.
124 St. Augustine, De civ. Dei 14, 28: PL 41, 436.
125 Cf. Phil 2:6-9.
126 Cf. Jn 14:30.
127 Gal 5:19-21; CE Rom 1:28-32; 1 Cor 9-10; EPh 5:3-5; Col 3:5-8; 1 Tim 9-10; 2 Tim 2-5.
128 Mt 15:19-20.
129 Cf. 1 Jn 16-17.
130 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I-II, 88, 2, corp. art.
131 RP 17 # 12.
132 Mk 10:19.
133 Cf. Mk 3:5-6; Lk 16:19-31.
134 John Paul II, RP 17 # 9.
135 St. Augustine, In ep. Jo. 1, 6: PL 35, 1982.
136 Mt 12:31; cf. Mk 3:29; Lk 12:10.
137 Cf. John Paul II, DeV 46.
138 Cf. St. Gregory the Great, Moralia in Job, 31, 45: PL 76, 621A.
139 Cf. Gen 4:10.
140 Cf. Gen 18:20; 19:13.
141 Cf. Ex 3:7-10.
142 Cf. Ex 20:20-22.
143 Cf. Deut 24:14-15; Jas 5:4.
144 John Paul II, RP 16.
(Dannyboy) Or, once we receive Christ, that we even in order to attain forgiveness from future sins?
(Cristoiglesia) Some say that justification is a legal act of God in which He declares the sinner to be worthy of heaven even though he continues to be a sinful creature. In this view of justification there is no internal renewal or real sanctification whether instant or through a lifelong process but simply an external application of the justice of Christ.
To Catholic Christians and many other Christians, justification is understood differently. We understand from Scriptures that justification is not the covering of sin but the eradication and the beginning of true sanctification and simultaneous renewal. The soul is transformed into goodness instead of being a sinful soul with sins covered by Christ’s blood. We see Scriptures saying that forgiveness results in a complete removal of sins. The only time the Bible mentions the covering of sin is in the context of one man’s sin being forgiven by another. One should note that we have no power to forgive another’s sin, therefore the context is that we do all we can and cover or overlook those sins against us. In relation to God and His removal of sin the Scriptures use quite different terminology such as “blot out”, “blotting out”, “clears away” and “takes away”.
Catholics see justification as a rebirth and supernatural life in a former sinner:
(Joh 3:5 DRB) Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(Tit 3:5 DRB) Not by the works of justice which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration and renovation of the Holy Ghost.
That creates an inner renewal of the soul:
(Eph 4:23 DRB) And be renewed in spirit of your mind:
Resulting in complete sanctification:
(1Co 6:11 DRB) And such some of you were. But you are washed: but you are sanctified: but you are justified: in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God.
Through this glorious process initiated by God’s grace the soul becomes beautiful, holy and worthy of heaven where nothing unclean is allowed. It is not an ugly sinful soul hidden under the blood of Jesus but instead one sanctified by Him and created anew for His glory.
(Dannyboy) I would argue that repentance (concerning salvation) is a one time thing, whereby we are given the promise of eternal life.
(Cristoiglesia) Many people seem to think that all they have to do is in a moment of emotion and/or reason ascent to recognition of Christ being their savior and their salvation to eternal life is assured. From that point forward it makes no difference that their life is changed and they will live differently. The only thing that has changed is that evil in their lives as displayed outwardly and lived inwardly no longer has an effect on their eternity as their one act of acceptance has made them immune to the actions of their sins at judgment and obligated God to accept them into His presence. Some will go so far as to say that one's sinfulness and evil has nothing to do with the value of their souls before God because even the most evil, sinful soul is covered rather than purified by Christ's atonement. It would appear that these people are saying that Christ's atonement is a method or sinister plan to allow sin in the presence of God draped in a covering of righteousness to conceal the evil within and that salvation is assured regardless of the state of their souls.
The question comes immediately to mind, how one can come to such conclusions considering the context of the body of Scriptures that contradict such a notion. I believe that it all comes down to one verse which is unique in all of Scripture that depicts Christ as a personal savior dependent on one’s inner conviction. All other Scriptures depict only salvation through the Church saying that He died for us, meaning the Church. St. Paul certainly taught this as he practiced seeking salvation through Christ's Church.
Here is the Scripture which through the eisegesis of some causes misunderstanding:
(Gal 2:20 DRB) And I live, now not I: but Christ liveth in me. And that I live now in the flesh: I live in the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and delivered himself for me.
Some take this verse to mean that one need only repent and turn to God with the heart of a little child and their salvation is assured.
(Joh 3:3 DRB) Jesus answered and said to him: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Catholics see salvation quite differently than those who think that covering one’s sins is enough to enter the presence of God. We recognize that Christ has redeemed us on the cross and unlocked the gates of heaven and that redemption is not the same as salvation but instead a prelude to salvation. In order for us to receive salvation we must cooperate by being spiritually alive. Our soul cannot be in a natural state when we die to receive salvation and no covering of its sinfulness will be enough to hide what is beneath, a soul without the sanctifying grace cannot enter heaven. If, at death, the soul is sanctified then there is no doubt of heaven even if that soul needs to go to the purification of purgatory. Only souls that are indeed good and pleasing to God by being full of His sanctifying grace will merit heaven. It is the state of the soul at death that merits heaven and this fact emphasizes why we need God’s ongoing grace in our lives to persevere to the end.
(Dannyboy) Certainly, we can repent (change course) and turn to God throughout our lives, but none of it is pending or meriting salvation, which has already been granted when we first repented, and believed, whereby we were saved.
(Cristoiglesia) I contend that Scriptures cannot be reconciled with the Calvinist inspired belief in OSAS. OSAS is certainly a doctrine from hell saying that one cannot fall away from the faith regardless of their sinfulness. That all that is required is a one time emotional recognition of Christ and they are forever justified, sanctified and saved for all eternity. They can remain sinful creatures in reality but Christ’s blood will cover that sin so that they can be smuggled into heaven as a dirty sinful soul. Yet the person who is not a sinful person has no hope of heaven unless he has this one emotional recognition of Christ. That would tend to make one question the just nature of God.
Let us start out with Romans 10 that Calvinists use to prove OSAS and site verses 14-17. They read as follows:
(Rom 10:14 DRB) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? Or how shall they believe him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
(Rom 10:15 DRB) And how shall they preach unless they be sent, as it is written: How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, of them that bring glad tidings of good things?
(Rom 10:16 DRB) But all do not obey the gospel. For Isaias saith: Lord, who hath believed our report?
(Rom 10:17 DRB) Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ.
Obviously these verses have nothing to do with Calvin’s doctrine of eternal security but instead speak of our commission by Christ to spread the Gospel.
Calvinists will then offer as proof John 6 verses 37-40. They read as follows:
(Joh 6:37 DRB) All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me: and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
(Joh 6:38 DRB) Because I came down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him that sent me.
(Joh 6:39 DRB) Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all that he hath given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day.
(Joh 6:40 DRB) And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son and believeth in him may have life everlasting. And I will raise him up in the last day.
There are a couple of things being taught here. First of all Jesus is making it clear that He is not working independently from the Father but is within the will of the Father. Secondly, Jesus was giving assurance of all that come to Him that if they trust in Him and believe that they can rely in Him to overcome the snares of Satan which could cause them to fall away. They are not immune to the seduction of temptation but through the grace given by Christ may endure to the end. If one was to try to use these verses to support OSAS they would have to acknowledge the meaning here to be in support of universal salvation. Theses verses do not support OSAS or universal salvation.
The following is a posting of a portion of John 6:44-45 used to support OSAS. It reads as follows:
(Joh 6:44 DRB) No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him. And I will raise him up in the last day.
(Joh 6:45 DRB) It is written in the prophets: And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard of the Father and hath learned cometh forth me.
Again these verses do not support universal salvation as they may appear nor do they support OSAS. In verse 44 Jesus is affirming that it is the Father through the Holy Spirit that brings people to faith and is relating to the teaching of the prophet Isaiah who speaks of the law being written on each person’s heart that is surrendered to for initial salvation. Jesus is reminding us that it is God’s grace and the Spirit in harmony with the Father that initiates salvation and does not come only from a response within ourselves as a result of free will.
In verse 45 is actually presenting prophecy about the Messianic kingdom where people will be taught directly by God and was referring directly to the following prophecies:
(Isa 54:13 DRB) All thy children shall be taught of the Lord: and great shall be the peace of thy children.
(Jer 31:31 DRB) Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda:
(Jer 31:32 DRB) Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, the covenant which they made void, and I had dominion over them, saith the Lord.
(Jer 31:33 DRB) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my law in their bowels, and I will write it in their heart: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:34 DRB) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying: Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least of them even to the greatest, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Again, neither Jesus nor the prophets are teaching universal salvation or OSAS in verse 45. Jesus is speaking that not mere hearing of the Word is enough but we must learn what the Word of God teaches. We are taught by the prophets, by the apostles and their successors through the Church, by Sacred Tradition which contains the written and oral teaching of God and by the gift of discernment from the Spirit. We must open ourselves to all of these to receive the truth as all of these are God’s gift to humanity so that we may endure to eternity.
Calvinists often use the following as proof texts: John 10:27-30 to support OSAS. Here is what they say:
(Joh 10:27 DRB) My sheep hear my voice. And I know them: and they follow me.
(Joh 10:28 DRB) And I give them life everlasting: and they shall not perish for ever. And no man shall pluck them out of my hand.
(Joh 10:29 DRB) That which my Father hath given me is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father.
(Joh 10:30 DRB) I and the Father are one.
The verses provided refer to Jesus’ previous discourse before the festival. He explains who His sheep are. He describes His sheep as follows:
1. Those who hear His voice in faith.
2. Who are known by God as loving Him.
3. Those who follow Him by keeping His commandments.
Jesus goes on to say that those who meet His three conditions also receive three promises:
1. I give them eternal life. (Please note that He did not say, “I will” give them, which would indicate that they must continue in a state of ongoing sanctification and belief.)
2. It is provisional on their abiding in God’s love that they will receive the gift of eternal life.
3. Those that continue to believe and follow Christ and endure to final salvation are assured of eternal life. A perseverance to believe, love, and obey God is necessary to abide in the assurance in the hand of God.
These verses do not support the lawlessness of OSAS
Continuing we are given the following verses in the book of Acts 10 verses 34-45 as support for OSAS:
(Act 10:34 DRB) And Peter opening his mouth, said: in very deed I perceive that God is not a respecter of persons.
(Act 10:35 DRB) But in every nation, he that feareth him and worketh justice is acceptable to him.
(Act 10:36 DRB) God sent the word to the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all).
(Act 10:37 DRB) You know the word which hath been published through all Judea: for it began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached.
(Act 10:38 DRB) Jesus of Nazareth: how God anointed him with the Holy Ghost and with power, who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
(Act 10:39 DRB) And we are witnesses of all things that he did in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem: whom they killed, hanging him upon a tree.
(Act 10:40 DRB) Him God raised up the third day and gave him to be made manifest,
(Act 10:41 DRB) Not to all the people, but to witnesses preordained by God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him, after he arose again from the dead.
(Act 10:42 DRB) And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that it is he who was appointed by God to be judge of the living and of the dead.
(Act 10:43 DRB) To him all the prophets give testimony, that by his name all receive remission of sins, who believe in him.
(Act 10:44 DRB) While Peter was yet speaking these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them that heard the word.
(Act 10:45 DRB) And the faithful of the circumcision, who came with Peter, were astonished for that the grace of the Holy Ghost was poured out upon the Gentiles also.
In these verses we see the greater message of the struggle of St. Peter over the issue of Gentile converts with the passage ending with both Cornelius and St Peter realizing that they were dependent on each other: Cornelius needed St Peter to receive the Gospel message and know the way to salvation. Peter needed Cornelius and his salvation experience to realize that the Gentiles were included in God’s plan for salvation.
Verses 37-43 contain one of St. Peter’s greatest sermons stating the Gospel. It includes the servanthood of Jesus, death on the cross and resurrection which he personally experienced. He emphasized the fulfillment of Scriptures by Christ as well as the necessity of ongoing belief in Him. While these verses are some of my personal favorites they do nothing to support a belief in OSAS.
The following are in the book of Acts 15, verses 7-9 that Calvinists claim support OSAS:
(Act 15:7 DRB) And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
(Act 15:8 DRB) And God, who knoweth the hearts, gave testimony, giving unto them the Holy Ghost, as well as to us:
(Act 15:9 DRB) And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
These verses have nothing to do with OSAS and do not support it in any way but instead deal with the Gentiles coming to faith. It does indicate the Episcopal structure of the Church and is an account of the first Ecumenical Council of the Church held in Jerusalem.
(1Co 9:27 DRB) But I chastise my body and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.
Verse 27 is recognized by skilled exegetes as one of the best texts at showing us the true biblical teaching of election and reprobation. I brings into focus that no one has been absolute and unconditionally elected to eternal life. Neither does it show that one is absolutely and unconditionally predestined to eternal death. What it does show is that Christians are to enjoy the privileges of being Christian on earth but if they abuse their privilege even though elect they will be among the reprobate. If anyone was among the elect I believe most Christians would agree that St. Paul would be one, but yet he declares that he feared being among the reprobate himself. He makes it clear to each of us that nothing can keep us from the seduction of temptation that can cause us to sin and that we must also strengthen the flesh and make it the slave of our spirit in righteousness, so that neither the flesh nor the spirit will betray our goal to remain among the elect. St. Paul’s message is, it is not enough to run the race well and to be judged to have fallen short of our goal of eternal life.
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(Cristoiglesia) The following is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.
1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him. Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.
1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God's mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:
When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner's will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130
1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131
1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.
1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.
1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.
1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul's progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not break the covenant with God. With God's grace it is humanly reparable. "Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."134
While he is in the flesh, man cannot help but have at least some light sins. But do not despise these sins which we call "light": if you take them for light when you weigh them, tremble when you count them. A number of light objects makes a great mass; a number of drops fills a river; a number of grains makes a heap. What then is our hope? Above all, confession.135
1864 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.
V. THE PROLIFERATION OF SIN
1865 Sin creates a proclivity to sin; it engenders vice by repetition of the same acts. This results in perverse inclinations which cloud conscience and corrupt the concrete judgment of good and evil. Thus sin tends to reproduce itself and reinforce itself, but it cannot destroy the moral sense at its root.
1866 Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great. They are called "capital" because they engender other sins, other vices.138 They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia.
1867 The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are "sins that cry to heaven": the blood of Abel,139 the sin of the Sodomites,140 the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt,141 the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan,142 injustice to the wage earner.143
1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
- by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
- by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
- by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
- by protecting evil-doers.
1869 Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. "Structures of sin" are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a "social sin."144
IN BRIEF
1870 "God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all" (Rom 11:32
).
1871 Sin is an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law (St. Augustine, Faust 22: PL 42, 418). It is an offense against God. It rises up against God in a disobedience contrary to the obedience of Christ.
1872 Sin is an act contrary to reason. It wounds man's nature and injures human solidarity.
1873 The root of all sins lies in man's heart. The kinds and the gravity of sins are determined principally by their objects.
1874 To choose deliberately - that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death.
1875 Venial sin constitutes a moral disorder that is reparable by charity, which it allows to subsist in us.
1876 The repetition of sins - even venial ones - engenders vices, among which are the capital sins.
________________________________________
113 Cf. Lk 15.
114 Mt 1:21.
115 Mt 26:28.
116 St. Augustine, Sermo 169, 11, 13: PL 38, 923.
117 1 Jn 8-9.
118 Rom 5:20.
119 Rom 5:21.
120 John Paul II, DeV 31 # 2.
121 St. Augustine, Contra Faustum 22: PL 42, 418; St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I-II, 71, 6.
122 Ps 51:4.
123 Gen 3:5.
124 St. Augustine, De civ. Dei 14, 28: PL 41, 436.
125 Cf. Phil 2:6-9.
126 Cf. Jn 14:30.
127 Gal 5:19-21; CE Rom 1:28-32; 1 Cor 9-10; EPh 5:3-5; Col 3:5-8; 1 Tim 9-10; 2 Tim 2-5.
128 Mt 15:19-20.
129 Cf. 1 Jn 16-17.
130 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I-II, 88, 2, corp. art.
131 RP 17 # 12.
132 Mk 10:19.
133 Cf. Mk 3:5-6; Lk 16:19-31.
134 John Paul II, RP 17 # 9.
135 St. Augustine, In ep. Jo. 1, 6: PL 35, 1982.
136 Mt 12:31; cf. Mk 3:29; Lk 12:10.
137 Cf. John Paul II, DeV 46.
138 Cf. St. Gregory the Great, Moralia in Job, 31, 45: PL 76, 621A.
139 Cf. Gen 4:10.
140 Cf. Gen 18:20; 19:13.
141 Cf. Ex 3:7-10.
142 Cf. Ex 20:20-22.
143 Cf. Deut 24:14-15; Jas 5:4.
144 John Paul II, RP 16.
(Dannyboy) Or, once we receive Christ, that we even in order to attain forgiveness from future sins?
(Cristoiglesia) Some say that justification is a legal act of God in which He declares the sinner to be worthy of heaven even though he continues to be a sinful creature. In this view of justification there is no internal renewal or real sanctification whether instant or through a lifelong process but simply an external application of the justice of Christ.
To Catholic Christians and many other Christians, justification is understood differently. We understand from Scriptures that justification is not the covering of sin but the eradication and the beginning of true sanctification and simultaneous renewal. The soul is transformed into goodness instead of being a sinful soul with sins covered by Christ’s blood. We see Scriptures saying that forgiveness results in a complete removal of sins. The only time the Bible mentions the covering of sin is in the context of one man’s sin being forgiven by another. One should note that we have no power to forgive another’s sin, therefore the context is that we do all we can and cover or overlook those sins against us. In relation to God and His removal of sin the Scriptures use quite different terminology such as “blot out”, “blotting out”, “clears away” and “takes away”.
Catholics see justification as a rebirth and supernatural life in a former sinner:
(Joh 3:5 DRB) Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(Tit 3:5 DRB) Not by the works of justice which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration and renovation of the Holy Ghost.
That creates an inner renewal of the soul:
(Eph 4:23 DRB) And be renewed in spirit of your mind:
Resulting in complete sanctification:
(1Co 6:11 DRB) And such some of you were. But you are washed: but you are sanctified: but you are justified: in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God.
Through this glorious process initiated by God’s grace the soul becomes beautiful, holy and worthy of heaven where nothing unclean is allowed. It is not an ugly sinful soul hidden under the blood of Jesus but instead one sanctified by Him and created anew for His glory.
(Dannyboy) I would argue that repentance (concerning salvation) is a one time thing, whereby we are given the promise of eternal life.
(Cristoiglesia) Many people seem to think that all they have to do is in a moment of emotion and/or reason ascent to recognition of Christ being their savior and their salvation to eternal life is assured. From that point forward it makes no difference that their life is changed and they will live differently. The only thing that has changed is that evil in their lives as displayed outwardly and lived inwardly no longer has an effect on their eternity as their one act of acceptance has made them immune to the actions of their sins at judgment and obligated God to accept them into His presence. Some will go so far as to say that one's sinfulness and evil has nothing to do with the value of their souls before God because even the most evil, sinful soul is covered rather than purified by Christ's atonement. It would appear that these people are saying that Christ's atonement is a method or sinister plan to allow sin in the presence of God draped in a covering of righteousness to conceal the evil within and that salvation is assured regardless of the state of their souls.
The question comes immediately to mind, how one can come to such conclusions considering the context of the body of Scriptures that contradict such a notion. I believe that it all comes down to one verse which is unique in all of Scripture that depicts Christ as a personal savior dependent on one’s inner conviction. All other Scriptures depict only salvation through the Church saying that He died for us, meaning the Church. St. Paul certainly taught this as he practiced seeking salvation through Christ's Church.
Here is the Scripture which through the eisegesis of some causes misunderstanding:
(Gal 2:20 DRB) And I live, now not I: but Christ liveth in me. And that I live now in the flesh: I live in the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and delivered himself for me.
Some take this verse to mean that one need only repent and turn to God with the heart of a little child and their salvation is assured.
(Joh 3:3 DRB) Jesus answered and said to him: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Catholics see salvation quite differently than those who think that covering one’s sins is enough to enter the presence of God. We recognize that Christ has redeemed us on the cross and unlocked the gates of heaven and that redemption is not the same as salvation but instead a prelude to salvation. In order for us to receive salvation we must cooperate by being spiritually alive. Our soul cannot be in a natural state when we die to receive salvation and no covering of its sinfulness will be enough to hide what is beneath, a soul without the sanctifying grace cannot enter heaven. If, at death, the soul is sanctified then there is no doubt of heaven even if that soul needs to go to the purification of purgatory. Only souls that are indeed good and pleasing to God by being full of His sanctifying grace will merit heaven. It is the state of the soul at death that merits heaven and this fact emphasizes why we need God’s ongoing grace in our lives to persevere to the end.
(Dannyboy) Certainly, we can repent (change course) and turn to God throughout our lives, but none of it is pending or meriting salvation, which has already been granted when we first repented, and believed, whereby we were saved.
(Cristoiglesia) I contend that Scriptures cannot be reconciled with the Calvinist inspired belief in OSAS. OSAS is certainly a doctrine from hell saying that one cannot fall away from the faith regardless of their sinfulness. That all that is required is a one time emotional recognition of Christ and they are forever justified, sanctified and saved for all eternity. They can remain sinful creatures in reality but Christ’s blood will cover that sin so that they can be smuggled into heaven as a dirty sinful soul. Yet the person who is not a sinful person has no hope of heaven unless he has this one emotional recognition of Christ. That would tend to make one question the just nature of God.
Let us start out with Romans 10 that Calvinists use to prove OSAS and site verses 14-17. They read as follows:
(Rom 10:14 DRB) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? Or how shall they believe him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
(Rom 10:15 DRB) And how shall they preach unless they be sent, as it is written: How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, of them that bring glad tidings of good things?
(Rom 10:16 DRB) But all do not obey the gospel. For Isaias saith: Lord, who hath believed our report?
(Rom 10:17 DRB) Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ.
Obviously these verses have nothing to do with Calvin’s doctrine of eternal security but instead speak of our commission by Christ to spread the Gospel.
Calvinists will then offer as proof John 6 verses 37-40. They read as follows:
(Joh 6:37 DRB) All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me: and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
(Joh 6:38 DRB) Because I came down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him that sent me.
(Joh 6:39 DRB) Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all that he hath given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day.
(Joh 6:40 DRB) And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son and believeth in him may have life everlasting. And I will raise him up in the last day.
There are a couple of things being taught here. First of all Jesus is making it clear that He is not working independently from the Father but is within the will of the Father. Secondly, Jesus was giving assurance of all that come to Him that if they trust in Him and believe that they can rely in Him to overcome the snares of Satan which could cause them to fall away. They are not immune to the seduction of temptation but through the grace given by Christ may endure to the end. If one was to try to use these verses to support OSAS they would have to acknowledge the meaning here to be in support of universal salvation. Theses verses do not support OSAS or universal salvation.
The following is a posting of a portion of John 6:44-45 used to support OSAS. It reads as follows:
(Joh 6:44 DRB) No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him. And I will raise him up in the last day.
(Joh 6:45 DRB) It is written in the prophets: And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard of the Father and hath learned cometh forth me.
Again these verses do not support universal salvation as they may appear nor do they support OSAS. In verse 44 Jesus is affirming that it is the Father through the Holy Spirit that brings people to faith and is relating to the teaching of the prophet Isaiah who speaks of the law being written on each person’s heart that is surrendered to for initial salvation. Jesus is reminding us that it is God’s grace and the Spirit in harmony with the Father that initiates salvation and does not come only from a response within ourselves as a result of free will.
In verse 45 is actually presenting prophecy about the Messianic kingdom where people will be taught directly by God and was referring directly to the following prophecies:
(Isa 54:13 DRB) All thy children shall be taught of the Lord: and great shall be the peace of thy children.
(Jer 31:31 DRB) Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda:
(Jer 31:32 DRB) Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, the covenant which they made void, and I had dominion over them, saith the Lord.
(Jer 31:33 DRB) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my law in their bowels, and I will write it in their heart: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:34 DRB) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying: Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least of them even to the greatest, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Again, neither Jesus nor the prophets are teaching universal salvation or OSAS in verse 45. Jesus is speaking that not mere hearing of the Word is enough but we must learn what the Word of God teaches. We are taught by the prophets, by the apostles and their successors through the Church, by Sacred Tradition which contains the written and oral teaching of God and by the gift of discernment from the Spirit. We must open ourselves to all of these to receive the truth as all of these are God’s gift to humanity so that we may endure to eternity.
Calvinists often use the following as proof texts: John 10:27-30 to support OSAS. Here is what they say:
(Joh 10:27 DRB) My sheep hear my voice. And I know them: and they follow me.
(Joh 10:28 DRB) And I give them life everlasting: and they shall not perish for ever. And no man shall pluck them out of my hand.
(Joh 10:29 DRB) That which my Father hath given me is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father.
(Joh 10:30 DRB) I and the Father are one.
The verses provided refer to Jesus’ previous discourse before the festival. He explains who His sheep are. He describes His sheep as follows:
1. Those who hear His voice in faith.
2. Who are known by God as loving Him.
3. Those who follow Him by keeping His commandments.
Jesus goes on to say that those who meet His three conditions also receive three promises:
1. I give them eternal life. (Please note that He did not say, “I will” give them, which would indicate that they must continue in a state of ongoing sanctification and belief.)
2. It is provisional on their abiding in God’s love that they will receive the gift of eternal life.
3. Those that continue to believe and follow Christ and endure to final salvation are assured of eternal life. A perseverance to believe, love, and obey God is necessary to abide in the assurance in the hand of God.
These verses do not support the lawlessness of OSAS
Continuing we are given the following verses in the book of Acts 10 verses 34-45 as support for OSAS:
(Act 10:34 DRB) And Peter opening his mouth, said: in very deed I perceive that God is not a respecter of persons.
(Act 10:35 DRB) But in every nation, he that feareth him and worketh justice is acceptable to him.
(Act 10:36 DRB) God sent the word to the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all).
(Act 10:37 DRB) You know the word which hath been published through all Judea: for it began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached.
(Act 10:38 DRB) Jesus of Nazareth: how God anointed him with the Holy Ghost and with power, who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
(Act 10:39 DRB) And we are witnesses of all things that he did in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem: whom they killed, hanging him upon a tree.
(Act 10:40 DRB) Him God raised up the third day and gave him to be made manifest,
(Act 10:41 DRB) Not to all the people, but to witnesses preordained by God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him, after he arose again from the dead.
(Act 10:42 DRB) And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that it is he who was appointed by God to be judge of the living and of the dead.
(Act 10:43 DRB) To him all the prophets give testimony, that by his name all receive remission of sins, who believe in him.
(Act 10:44 DRB) While Peter was yet speaking these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them that heard the word.
(Act 10:45 DRB) And the faithful of the circumcision, who came with Peter, were astonished for that the grace of the Holy Ghost was poured out upon the Gentiles also.
In these verses we see the greater message of the struggle of St. Peter over the issue of Gentile converts with the passage ending with both Cornelius and St Peter realizing that they were dependent on each other: Cornelius needed St Peter to receive the Gospel message and know the way to salvation. Peter needed Cornelius and his salvation experience to realize that the Gentiles were included in God’s plan for salvation.
Verses 37-43 contain one of St. Peter’s greatest sermons stating the Gospel. It includes the servanthood of Jesus, death on the cross and resurrection which he personally experienced. He emphasized the fulfillment of Scriptures by Christ as well as the necessity of ongoing belief in Him. While these verses are some of my personal favorites they do nothing to support a belief in OSAS.
The following are in the book of Acts 15, verses 7-9 that Calvinists claim support OSAS:
(Act 15:7 DRB) And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
(Act 15:8 DRB) And God, who knoweth the hearts, gave testimony, giving unto them the Holy Ghost, as well as to us:
(Act 15:9 DRB) And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
These verses have nothing to do with OSAS and do not support it in any way but instead deal with the Gentiles coming to faith. It does indicate the Episcopal structure of the Church and is an account of the first Ecumenical Council of the Church held in Jerusalem.
(1Co 9:27 DRB) But I chastise my body and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.
Verse 27 is recognized by skilled exegetes as one of the best texts at showing us the true biblical teaching of election and reprobation. I brings into focus that no one has been absolute and unconditionally elected to eternal life. Neither does it show that one is absolutely and unconditionally predestined to eternal death. What it does show is that Christians are to enjoy the privileges of being Christian on earth but if they abuse their privilege even though elect they will be among the reprobate. If anyone was among the elect I believe most Christians would agree that St. Paul would be one, but yet he declares that he feared being among the reprobate himself. He makes it clear to each of us that nothing can keep us from the seduction of temptation that can cause us to sin and that we must also strengthen the flesh and make it the slave of our spirit in righteousness, so that neither the flesh nor the spirit will betray our goal to remain among the elect. St. Paul’s message is, it is not enough to run the race well and to be judged to have fallen short of our goal of eternal life.
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
26 April, 2010
How Catholics feel about the pedophile accusations
I think what most of are upset about is the lies and half-truths being spread by the media about the Church. The media is grouping pedophilia, corporeal punishment and homosexuality into an allegation of pedophilia. The occurrence of pedophilia is the lowest by a wide margin than any other church or adult group. Even family members and school teachers have a higher incidence of this crime.
What the press is calling cover-up is not the cover ups of crimes but of illicit and scandalous liaisons of homosexual priests and young adults. What he Church did was to send them to treatment for their homosexual perversion on the advice that they could be cured by the medical community. When they were declared cured by the doctors they were put back into ministry. Hindsight tells us the foolishness of this approach and the Church has not done this in decades. The Church has since purged itself of predatory homosexuals. Some of these who were treated did commit crimes later but no one that I can find was a pedophile that was returned to ministry. All of them were prosecuted by the civil authorities and lacitized by the Church. Pedophilia was not covered-up. The reason the civil authorities did not prosecute the priests that went to treatment is because no law was broken.
Much of the abuse being talked about is corporeal abuse (spanking) done by caregivers in Church run reform schools. In the past spanking was not a crime. I was spanked in public schools and I was not a problem child like the children in the reform schools. I am not saying this was right but that it was part of the culture 30 to 60 years ago. Back then if I got spanked at school I got an even greater spanking at home.
Then there is the problem of the press reporting this alleged abuse as if it is current within the Church when it actually occurred 30 to 60 years ago. The alleged perpetrators are often dead when these allegations are made. Usually they come forward after being enticed by attorneys doing these class action suits to make allegations on the promise of great financial gain. As a result less than 10% of the allegations have any merit and almost none of them have a living alleged perpetrator who can defend the claims against him.
Anyone sexually abusing children should be punished with the full weight of the law and of the Church. All victims should receive restitution. Everything should be done to ensure that children are safe in Church. The record shows that Pope Benedict has done everything possible for this end. The Church now is probably the safest place for children, even safer than their own homes. There are very few merited accusations against the Church in the last decade. My concern is that the focus on the scandal in the Church decades ago is diverting the attention from the fact that pedophilia and other sexual abuse is rampant and of epidemic proportions in secular world among teachers, scout masters, step-fathers and fathers and unfortunately extremely common in the Protestant sects. To these groups the Catholic Church is a shining example of how to deal with this problem and make all churches safer places for children like the Catholic Church has done. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
What the press is calling cover-up is not the cover ups of crimes but of illicit and scandalous liaisons of homosexual priests and young adults. What he Church did was to send them to treatment for their homosexual perversion on the advice that they could be cured by the medical community. When they were declared cured by the doctors they were put back into ministry. Hindsight tells us the foolishness of this approach and the Church has not done this in decades. The Church has since purged itself of predatory homosexuals. Some of these who were treated did commit crimes later but no one that I can find was a pedophile that was returned to ministry. All of them were prosecuted by the civil authorities and lacitized by the Church. Pedophilia was not covered-up. The reason the civil authorities did not prosecute the priests that went to treatment is because no law was broken.
Much of the abuse being talked about is corporeal abuse (spanking) done by caregivers in Church run reform schools. In the past spanking was not a crime. I was spanked in public schools and I was not a problem child like the children in the reform schools. I am not saying this was right but that it was part of the culture 30 to 60 years ago. Back then if I got spanked at school I got an even greater spanking at home.
Then there is the problem of the press reporting this alleged abuse as if it is current within the Church when it actually occurred 30 to 60 years ago. The alleged perpetrators are often dead when these allegations are made. Usually they come forward after being enticed by attorneys doing these class action suits to make allegations on the promise of great financial gain. As a result less than 10% of the allegations have any merit and almost none of them have a living alleged perpetrator who can defend the claims against him.
Anyone sexually abusing children should be punished with the full weight of the law and of the Church. All victims should receive restitution. Everything should be done to ensure that children are safe in Church. The record shows that Pope Benedict has done everything possible for this end. The Church now is probably the safest place for children, even safer than their own homes. There are very few merited accusations against the Church in the last decade. My concern is that the focus on the scandal in the Church decades ago is diverting the attention from the fact that pedophilia and other sexual abuse is rampant and of epidemic proportions in secular world among teachers, scout masters, step-fathers and fathers and unfortunately extremely common in the Protestant sects. To these groups the Catholic Church is a shining example of how to deal with this problem and make all churches safer places for children like the Catholic Church has done. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
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