27 February, 2014

Part 1 of a discussion with Elmer of the Church of God International

My responses are in bold print

"I was really surprised by your experiences in the Catholic church and in different translations of the bible. But I was also surprised you were very sure that there is no any biblical teaching that is contrary to Catholic teaching.”

Of course there cannot be as if there were contradictions between the teaching of Jesus then Jesus would be a liar and I do not believe that He ever was a liar. He said that He built an enduring Church that the “gates of Hell” will never prevail against. If what you claim is true then the “gates of hell” did indeed prevail against His Church which is contrary to biblical teaching and the witness of His Church. I believe what Jesus said and you deny His promise to His Church with your Arian heretical beliefs that have been already condemned.

Matthew 16:17-19 (RSVCE)

17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter,[a] and on this rock[b] I will build my church, and the powers of death[c] shall not prevail against it.[d] 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,[e] and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”


  1. Matthew 16:18 Greek Petros
  2. Matthew 16:18 Greek petra
  3. Matthew 16:18 Greek the gates of Hades
  4. 16.18 The name “Peter” comes from the Greek word for “rock.” Jesus makes him the foundation on which the church is to be built. The word “church” means “assembly” or “society” of believers. The Hebrew equivalent is used in the Old Testament to indicate the chosen people. In applying it to the church, Jesus shows it to be the Messianic community foretold by the prophets.
  5. 16.19 the kingdom of heaven: Peter has the key to the gates of the city of God. This power is exercised through the church. “Binding” and “loosing” are rabbinic terms referring to excommunication, then later to forbidding or allowing something. Not only can Peter admit to the kingdom; he also has power to make authoritative decisions in matters of faith or morals.

Furthermore, the Bible says of the Church that it is the “pillar and bulwark of the truth”

1 Timothy 3:15 (RSVCE)

15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

If the Church is not as the Bible says it is, then the Bible is false teaching.

I personally do not believe that Jesus ever lied or that the Bible teaches falsely as you seem to suggest.

I know that I am just a student and you are older than me. But, that does not mean that you should not believe in the knowledge I have learned. My explanations are guided by the scriptures, by the doctrines of Jesus.

Age is not important except that it is natural for a sober devout  man to get wiser with age. There is actually no reason that I should believe in the so-called knowledge that you claim to have. It could be false knowledge as well as truth. It would be more correct to say that  your explanations are guided by your personal interpretations of the Scriptures but yet you have not given any evidence that you have any authority to teach or even training to understand the Scriptures. Almost every heretical teacher believes that he is guided by the Scriptures but yet they do not have adequate knowledge of biblical hermeneutics to make such a claim. Almost all have no knowledge of the original language  to know if the translation they are reading is true. Also, many who make such a claim have an incorrect approach to Scripture called “eisegesis”. Where they read into Scriptures their own prejudice to support their man made doctrines. They isolate Scriptures out of context to support their desires for what it teaches rather than to allow the Bible in all of its truthfulness to instruct them.

Understanding the theological terms "exegesis" and "eisegesis"

These terms are used by both Catholic Christians and non-Catholic Christians. I was taught these terms in Protestant seminaries while studying biblical hermeneutics. The meaning would employ agreeing with and considering the whole context of Scriptures as opposed to going to Scriptures to support one's own theological speculations. In other words, it is an interpretation that takes into account all of the Scriptures eliminating all contradictions to one's perceived speculations. It is an approach to Scriptures that invokes learning rather than theological speculation. It is a scholarly approach to Scriptures rather than a prejudicial approach. Last of all the Scriptures teach us that they are NOT for private interpretation and that only the enduring Church founded by Jesus, the Catholic Church,  has the authority to teach and not an individual like yourself.

The fact is that all Scriptures do agree with the Catholic Church as one without prejudice should suppose as the Scriptures were approved by the Church as suitable for teaching and inspired. The New Testament was even written by the first century Catholic Christians. In regards to this, the Bible clearly records Christ's teaching that all authority is given to His Church and that would include the infallible interpretation of His Word. How else could His teaching of an enduring deposit of truth be true if His Church would teach error? Jesus did not lie in His promises to His Church and humanity.

Brother, please do not say that you will become an atheist. I really do not want you to do that also. That is not my intention why I wrote to you. I am just trying to tell you biblical doctrines that is different from the Catholic doctrines.

I am confident that you will not be able to identify and support any biblical teaching that  is contradictory in any way to Catholic teaching and practice including doctrines. So, do not worry about me becoming an atheist as you cannot support any “biblical doctrines” that are contradictory to Catholic doctrines. So far you have failed to convince me that the eisegetical interpretation of Scripture about the divinity of Christ contradicts the Bible. I will answer you like St. Peter said after our Lord’s colloquy at Capernaum when all of the disciples of our Lord left Him except the twelve. Jesus said to the 12 “do you wish to leave me also”? St. Peter answered, ‘to whom shall we go as you have the words of eternal life. My answer to you is to whom shall I go if you can prove Jesus a liar and the Bible false teaching. I will not follow the teaching of Jesus if you indeed prove Him a liar or the Bible if it is proven to be false teaching. Your approach is already quite suspect as you originally tried to prove that Jesus is not God with us or Immanuel as the Bible teaches. As a result you have made a direct attack on the very Gospel taught by my Lord and the veracity of His atoning sacrifice for mankind. Of course your so-called proof texts did not contextually support your contentions in any way that Jesus is not God and the second person in the Trinity of the one God. So you have already lost the first round in your effort to find false doctrines in the Catholic Church that contradict Scriptures.

It is really obvious that there are so many religions or sects or denominations of Christianity today and the Catholic Church is just one of them.

No, the Catholic church is not a denomination of Christianity but the original Church described in the New Testament of the Bible founded by Jesus personally. All biblical, historical and patristic evidence supports this truth without contradiction.  

Even they all use the bible, a lot of them neglect different doctrines of Jesus Christ, they preach another Gospel and they preach another teaching using their different interpretations of the bible, using their “traditions” and these big religious sects do not agree with each other.

Do you  mean like you are doing? Your preaching was to destroy the Gospel by claiming previously that Jesus is not God and the second person in the Trinity of the one God. And if you are completely honest you will have to acknowledge that this is exactly what you are attempting to do with your attack on Christ and the Gospel. No one has any authority from Christ to teach anything except the Catholic Church and Jesus promised that the teaching of His Church is the fullness of truth and without error. The confusion of the Protestant sects has spawned over 20,000 different sects each claiming the truth but being full of error but it was Jesus that said of His Church that the “gates of hell” will never prevail against his Church , the Catholic Church. In the Philippines there are at least three heretical Arian sects that spread the lie that Jesus is not God. There is the Iglesia ni Cristo, Church of God International and the Jehovah witnesses all denying that Jesus is God. These are all modernist sects of Arianism and all three of these evil sects have been declared in anathema 17 centuries before they existed for their heresy that Jesus is not God. May He have mercy on all those that deny Him and His Church. Christ’s own Church the Catholic Church is truly and undeniably the fullness of God’s divine truth and truly as the Bible says a city on a hill that cannot be hid.

According to the bible, Jesus warned us not to be deceived by false teachers. 1 of Christ and  John 4:1 says “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” Since there are so many false prophets that have gone out into the world, a person must be very sure if a church teaches the doctrines of God. John 7:17 says “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” To investigate, we must learn not in their traditions, their experience, their degree nor their outside appearance but it is the doctrines that they carry. It should be known that if a doctrine is not from God, then it is from false prophets, because it is different from what was written in the bible. (There are so many unbiblical doctrines of Catholic church which I want to show to you but not this time.) It is the word of the God that must be the authority.

I was an evangelical Protestant (Moravian) for 50 years before becoming Catholic.  I looked deeply and critically at the Church and saw that not only does the Church teach the fullness of truth but does so in perfect accordance with Scriptures.

The Bible is not the only source of truth and the Bible confirms this fact. St. Paul said to hold fast to not only the written Word but also to the Sacred Traditions which are taught orally. Other than the Old Testament (Septuagint) there was no written Word for the first 400 years of the Church. All of the Word was transmitted orally. When the Protestant rebellion started the protesters rejected the fullness of God’s Word for the heresy of Sola Scriptura. This heresy is responsible of the lack of unity in the Corpus Christi with over 40,000 different sects calling themselves Christian each with some truth and teaching countless heresies.

Well Elmer, it was the Church that had the authority to decide that the Scriptures were inspired. The Catholic Church wrote them (NT) and canonized them. The whole New Testament is about the Catholic Church. Just as the Holy Spirit guided the Church to exercise this God given authority it guided the Church to all truth just as is recorded in Scriptures. The Holy Spirit was given to the Church which Jesus promised would endure for all times and it has testifying to Jesus’ veracity. It is the Church that has all authority for teaching and truth and not the book that we wrote and canonized. Just like the Bible which gets its authority from the Church so to do the doctrines of the Church get their authority from the same source given by Christ to the Church. So, what I have found is that biblical deception is only found outside of His Church and not within the teaching of the Church.
You said that “Sola Scriptura is a heresy and is an unbiblical teaching that results in error as you have given example.” What error are you referring, brother?

Your denial of Christ as God and the 2nd person in the Trinity of the one God. This teaching denies the very veracity of Christ’s atoning work on the cross for mankind. It is truly a doctrine of devils to deny Christ and to deny His Gospel.
I know that there is really an error and that is the doctrine of Trinity which the Catholic church added.

If one denies the Trinity they cease to be Christian as this is the fundamental belief from the beginning of Christianity. This doctrine agrees with the teaching of Christ through His apostles. It agrees with the ongoing witness of His Church which has taught that Jesus is God without exception from the beginning of the Church at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came to the Church to protect it from error and to lead the Church to all truth. The Church confirmed and defined this teaching at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD by the authority given by Christ to His Church. As a result the Arians like yourself and their beliefs were found in anathema and condemned to an eternity in hell unless they repented of their disbelief in the true nature of God and came into the true belief in Jesus’ nature. The Church never added this doctrine as you claim but simply confirmed it in the challenge to it by the Arian heretics.

Catholics continue their “tradition” without knowing that their doctrines opposes what God teaches. They claim that they were the authority so that people will believe in everything they will teach and also in the words of their popes.

Sacred Tradition is the teaching of Jesus, His Church and the Bible as canonized by the Church under the authority of Christ. Nowhere does the doctrines of the Church oppose God’s teaching but instead protects and confirms God’s teaching. Jesus proclaimed the Church to have all teaching authority. Why do you deny this biblical teaching? Is it because it opposes the doctrines of men that you prefer to follow to satisfy your itching ears? Jesus gave this authority to the Church and so great was this authority he said to the Church what you bind on earth is bound in heaven and what you loose on earth is loosed in heaven. Jesus gave this authority so that all men could see where the Church is and where truth can be found.
You also said that the Trinity is the fundamental belief of Christianity.

That is undeniably correct.

May I ask where did you get that the Trinity is the fundamental belief of Christianity?

It comes from the teaching of Jesus, His Church and the Bible. It is the undeniable teaching of Christianity.

If that is right, then why didn’t Jesus and the Apostles even mention about the doctrine of Trinity wherein the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are perfectly equal, their glory equal or their majesty coeternal?

It became a doctrine when the Church confirmed at the Council of Nicaea the ongoing orthodox teaching of the three sources of divine truth which is the teaching of Jesus, His Church and the Bible.

It is right that they are distinct but their glory or their Godhead are not perfectly equal. Christians are followers and believers of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Trinity is nowhere in the bible. If that is really the fundamental belief, then, you mean that Jesus Christ might have forgotten to mention about this to his followers. If Jesus would preach about Trinity, then, there will be contradictions or errors in the rest of His words.

The Trinity is taught all over the Bible from the Old Testament to the new Testament. Without prejudice and eisegesis it is impossible to miss. The teaching that Jesus is God and the 2nd person in the Trinity of the one God cannot be denied by a Bible scholar. If Jesus was not a perfect sacrifice then how can one say that our sins have been atoned for? Here is what the Old Testament says about the Messiah who was Jesus.
Isaiah 7:14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
This prophecy foretells that Jesus (Immanuel means “God with us”) will be born of a virgin.

Isaiah 50: 5-7: The Lord GOD has opened my ear, and I was not rebellious, I turned not backward.  I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to those who pulled out the beard; I hid not my face from shame and spitting.  For the Lord GOD helps me; therefore I have not been confounded; therefore I have set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be put to shame.
Once again, this sounds like what happened to Jesus during the crucifixion. Jesus was mocked and spit upon by the Roman guards, but yet was not put to shame.
Isaiah 53: 1-12: Who has believed what we have heard? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the will of the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief;when he makes himself an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand; he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Isaiah 53 is probably the most pointed reference to the suffering servant, Jesus, in the Old Testament.  By His stripes we are healed !
Isaiah 60:6:A multitude of camels shall cover you,the young camels of Mid'ian and Ephah; all those from Sheba shall come.  They shall bring gold and frankincense, and shall proclaim the praise of the LORD.
Here we see in Isaiah 60:6 the prophecy that Gentiles shall come bearing gold and frankincense, a prophecy that was fulfilled by the 3 Wisemen at the Birth of Jesus - Gold is for royal kings, Frankincense is used during worship of God, and Myrrh is used for burial.    Interestingly, the 3 gifts indicate who Jesus really is!

Isaiah 61:1: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,  because  he has anointed me to  preach  good  news  to  the poor.  He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of  sight  to the blind, to set  at  liberty  those who are oppressed, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
Jesus Himself proclaims that Isaiah's prophecy above refers  to  him,  in  Luke 4:18-19.

Daniel 7:13-14: I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man,and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.
Daniel's vision above references to the "son of man", which is the name that Jesus gave to himself.
Micah  5:2  : And  thou  Bethlehem  Ephrata,  art  a  little  one  among  the thousands of Judah,  out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and  his  going  forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity.
Here we see that the future ruler of Israel, will be born in Bethlehem, a name that means “House of Bread”.
Psalm 22: 2:  O God my God, look upon me: why hast thou forsaken me? Far from my salvation are the words of my sins.
Psalm 22:7-9: But I am a worm, and no man: the reproach of men, and the outcast of the people.  All they that saw me have laughed me to scorn: they have spoken with the lips, and wagged the head.  He hoped in the Lord, let him deliver him: let him save him, seeing he delighteth in him.
Psalm 22:12-19 : Depart not from me. For tribulation is very near: for there is none to help me.  Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me.  They have opened their mouths against me, as a lion ravening and roaring.  I am poured out like water; and all my bones are scattered. My heart is become like wax melting in the midst of my bowels.  My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue hath cleaved to my jaws: and thou hast brought me down into the dust of death.  For many dogs have encompassed me: the council of the malignant hath besieged me. They have dug my hands and feet.  They have numbered all my bones. And they have looked and stared upon me.  They parted my garments amongst them; and upon my vesture they cast lots.
Psalm 22, written hundreds of years before Jesus by David, very closely describes the agony of Jesus on the cross, even down to the fact that the Roman soldiers cast lots for the clothes of Jesus.
Zechariah 11:12-13: Then I said to them, "If it seems right to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them." And they weighed out as my wages thirty shekels of silver.  Then the LORD said to me, "Cast it into the treasury" -- the lordly price at which I was paid off by them. So I took the thirty shekels of silver and cast them into the treasury in the house of the LORD.
Zechariah 11:12-13 predicts that the Lord would be sold for 30 pieces of silver, which came true when Judas betrayed Jesus to the Pharisees.
Ezekiel 34:11-16:"For thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I, I myself will search for my sheep, and will seek them out.  As a shepherd seeks out his flock when some of his sheep have been scattered abroad, so will I seek out my sheep; and I will rescue them from all places where they have been scattered on a day of clouds and thick darkness. And I will bring them out from the peoples, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them into their own land; and I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the fountains, and in all the inhabited places of the country.] I will feed them with good pasture, and upon the mountain heights of Israel shall be their pasture; there they shall lie down in good grazing land, and on fat pasture they shall feed on the mountains of Israel.  I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep, and I will make them lie down, says the Lord GOD.  I will seek the lost, and I will bring back the strayed, and I will bind up the crippled, and I will strengthen the weak, and the fat and the strong I will watch over; I will feed them in justice.
Daniel 7:13-14: I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man,and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.  And to him was given dominion and glory and kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.
The above 2 scriptures from Daniel and Ezekiel were fulfilled by Jesus, when he said in Luke 19:10:  "For the Son of man came to seek and to save the lost."
2 Samuel 4-5a, 12-14a, 16:  The Lord spoke to Nathan and said: "Go, tell my servant David, 'When your time comes and you rest with your ancestors,  I will raise up your heir after you, sprung from your loins, and I will make his kingdom firm.  It is he who shall build a house for my name.  And I will make his royal throne firm forever.  I will be a father to him,  and he shall be a son to me.  Your house and your kingdom shall endure forever before me; your throne shall stand firm forever."
Here in 2nd Samuel Nathan the prophet is to tell David all about Jesus, which came true about 1000 years in the future.
Zechariah 9:9: Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Lo, your king comes to you; triumphant and victorious is he, humble and riding on an ass,on a colt the foal of an ass.
Here we see the prophecy that was fulfilled by Jesus on Palm Sunday, when he rode triumphantly into Jerusalem on a donkey.
Again, I want you to read I Corinthians 15:24-28, it says,

“Then comes the end, when he will give up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have put an end to all rule and to all authority and power.
For his rule will go on till he has put all those who are against him under his feet.
The last power to come to an end is death.
For, as it says, He has put all things under his feet. But when he says, All things are put under him, it is clear that it is not said about him who put all things under him.
And when all things have been put under him, then will the Son himself be under him who put all things under him, so that God may be all in all.
It is right that it refers to the evil power, which is being describe in Revelations 20:9. But, did you notice what is said in the last verse? After the Son has put all those evil, who are against him, under his feet, then the Son will also subject himself to the Father. The Son is not just honoring the Father but subjecting himself to the Father. So that, God may be all in all. This is referring to God, the Father. Again, this means that the Father is the greatest. He is greater than the Son and even than the Holy Spirit! That is what the bible teaches but you neglected this. Jesus admits that His Father is really the greatest. How come the doctrine of Trinity would match what Jesus has said? “

As I have already explained to you that the Son will be subject to the Father according to His human nature and will continue even after the general resurrection. The whole mystical Body of Christ will be subject to God and will obey Him in all things.

Believing in Trinity is a heresy for sure. In Proverbs 19:27, it says “Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge.” Therefore, it is a God’s commandment to stop hearing the instruction of erroneous doctrines.

No the Trinity is the teaching of Jesus, His Church and the Bible even if it does not satisfy your itching ears. You obviously cannot endure sound doctrines and as a esult stray from sound knowledge. Here is what the Bible says about those who cannot:

2 Timothy 4:3(RSVCE)

3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings,
I also want to add more biblical explanations that the Trinity is wrong.

I can see that denying Christ as God is your goal but you are the one that is woefully wrong:

According to 1 Cor 11:3, “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”

The word kephale here in the Greek  for head can have one of two meanings it can mean “leader” or “source”. The relationship of Christ to the Father does not support that Jesus is not God in either of these possible meanings.
The glory, majesty, authority of the Father is higher than the Son because the head of Christ is God. I do not degrade the Son, I believe in the Son. This verse told by Apostle Paul conforms to John 14:28.

There certainly is a relational hierarchy between the Father and the Son as there is in human families as we are modeled after the heavenly relationship. Only the Father has divine paternity and is distinct  in being without origin.  None of the three divine persons exceeds the others in greatness or glory in all eternity they are one God.
“In John 10:29, you emphasized that “the Father’s divinity is greater than Jesus humanity.” But, Jesus is saying that the Father has more value than all. In KJV, it says that the Father is greater than all, not only than Jesus humanity but all. For sure, the Holy Spirit is also included there. I believe I am not offending the Holy Spirit if I say that the Father is greater because the Holy Spirit is under the Father. The Lord Jesus Christ, the Son can send the Holy Spirit. According from the principle of the Gospel, John 13:16,
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.”

The very next verse which is verse of Joh 10:30 says, “I and the Father are one”. In John 13:16 Jesus refers again to His humanity. This verse speaks of equality. See also Mat 10:24 and Luke 22:27 which repeat this theme.  
“Clearly, this conforms to my explanations. The Lord Jesus Christ was sent by the Father for great purposes to do the will of the Father (John 3:16-17), can the Lord Jesus Christ be greater than the Father or even equal with the Father?”

Yes, of course He can be equal even in doing His Father's will.

“The one sending is greater than the one being sent. The Holy Spirit is also being sent by the Father for important purposes (John 14:26; Romans 8:26; etc.). By biblical implication, the Father is greater than His Son and His Holy Spirit. The three Persons has really different purposes, but the Father, the Creator is the greatest.”

Again, doing the will of the Father by Jesus or by the Holy Spirit does not detract from the equality of the the three persons of the Trinity. the verses you provide simply shows a unity in purpose and does not even suggest inequality.
“So how can you still prove that the Son and the Holy Spirit are perfectly equal to the Father? If you will try to show dogmas regarding Trinity from Catechism, those will only contradict to what the word of God is saying. Their dogmas are just supplemental to prove their Trinity doctrine. Remember that Jesus warned us from false teachings.”

Well up until now you have not provided any evidence to support your claim of inequality between the three persons of the Holy Trinity. So, first of all, the onus is upon you to prove your theorem. It is impossible for the Catechism to contradict Scripture in any way. The Catechism is the official teaching of the Church founded by God that is truly the source of the fullness of truth and Christ’s authority according to Scripture. Here is a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church where the teaching of the Trinity is contained with the biblical support for the Trinity Doctrine:


Indeed Jesus warned us of false teaching  and told us clearly where the fullness of truth can be found which is only His Church which has all authority to teach. We are promised that the Church will never succumb to the “gates of hell” that will make every effort to cause the Church to apostatize. here is what the Bible says about the Church’s authority to teach:

1 Timothy 3:15 (NRSVCE)

15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
“Please read Jeremiah 26:2, it says, “Thus saith the Lord; Stand in the court of the Lord 's house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the Lord' s house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word:”
And Proverbs 30:5-6 says, “Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.””

Your posting of these verses to support the Trinity are somewhat confusing. Are you trying to make a case that the New Testament should not have been written? Of course these verses speak of the oral teaching and not the written Word of God.
“Again, these verses conforms to what the Apostle Paul preached that we must not add to God’s words. These were some of the indications that the word of God is complete.”

At the time this was written only the Old Testament existed. Do you believe that only the Old Testament has veracity and that the New Testament should have never been written and combined with the Old Testament by the Church in the late 4th and early 5th centuries?

“And I also want to add this verse, it was written by the Apostle John in Revelations 22:18-19,
“I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.””

Yes and you do know I pray that He was speaking of His writing about his apocalyptic vision. He never even dreamed of a New Testament being canonized by the Church and was speaking only about this one book that he wrote.
“The Apostle John also knew that adding or taking away from the words are prohibited by God.”

Where do you get this from as he was clearly speaking of only his apocalyptic vision recorded in his writing?

There are so many doctrines in the Catholic church that were invented through their “traditions”.

By traditions I suppose you are speaking of the sacred traditions of the Church which are the teaching of Jesus, the Church founded by Christ and the Bible.

“It’s so scary for me now to just rely on their doctrines especially if it is not taught by God.”

You need to be more specific for me to comment but surely all Catholic doctrines are in unity with all the sources of divine truth which are Jesus, His Church and the Bible. This is the sacred tradition of the Church founded by Christ.

“I’m really grateful that God called me to go in His church where all the doctrines of Jesus are being taught, all the things that God teaches us in the bible.”

I was under the impression that you were no longer Catholic and had chosen to leave Christ’s Church because you cannot endure the sound doctrine taught by Christ’s Church. As a result I thought that you had found false teachers who are satisfying your itching ears.

I've been very eager to find where I really belong because since I was a kid, I am really not convinced what the Catechists are teaching to us. It was like a miracle for me and I am still amazed how I discovered the Truth. I left the Catholic church after finding the true church taught by the Lord Jesus Christ.”

OK, which of the Arian sects have seduced you into denying the true nature of God? Jesus founded only one Church and that Church is the Catholic Church. All historical,  biblical and patristic evidence points to this fact. Jesus established only one Church 2000 years ago that He promised would endure for all times.

Matthew 28:20 (NRSVCE)

20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”[a]


  1. Matthew 28:20 Other ancient authorities add Amen

“ I also want to show to you that the “purgatory” is just an invention where people are being fooled like the concept of "Limbo" which they lately abolished and also about the “Our Lady” of the Catholics that delivers souls from "purgatory". It seems that it will take too long but the truth must prevail, God willing. If it is ok for you, I want first to hear your reply about Trinity.
Thanks for reading, brother.

That will be fine Elmer. I look forward for you trying to deny the process of purgation which is the second most biblically supported of all Catholic doctrines after the Trinity. Just a note… the theological speculation on Limbo is still speculation as to what happens to unbaptized babies with original sin. I see that you are suggesting that you will eventually target Jesus’ mother, I look forward to your threats coming to fruition. It is always a pleasure for me to contend for the faith delivered once for all.

God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph