Discussion with a person named Donald about the blessed mother of God’s sinlessness and salvation.

My comments are in bold.

Romans 3:10-12

10 as it is written,

“There is none righteous, not even one;

11 There is none who understands,

There is none who seeks for God;

12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;

There is none who does good,

There is not even one.”

Romans 3:10-12 clearly states there is no one who is Righteous. Not even one person ever born was Righteous, not even Mary. Romans 3:10-12 also states there is none who does good, there is not even one.

Clearly the Holy Spirit is teaching us that Mary was not Righteous, that Mary never did Good, and that Mary never sought out God.

Romans 3:23

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Everybody has sinned and fallen short, even Mary sinned and fell short.

Now let's look at the issue of blessed mother's sinless nature. Consider that when the angel addresses the blessed mother at the annunciation, the greeting is almost a name change:

"Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women" (Luke 1:28, KJV).

Mary (Miriam in Hebrew) means "beloved." In biblical times a person's name reflected what they were. Name changes have great theological significance in the Bible and this is almost as if her name is being changed from "beloved" to "thou that art highly favored." Since this is before Jesus has been conceived, to what is the angel referring? No doubt to her singular devotion to God, forsaking all earthly distractions and desecrations, and the fact that she had been conceived without sin in preparation for this event.

Being conceived without sin does not mean that the blessed mother had no need of a redeemer. In fact, like every descendant of Adam, the blessed mother had vital need of a redeemer. The blessed mother's freedom from original sin was an unmerited gift of God in that she was redeemed by Christ at the moment of her conception. It is at the moment of conception that God creates the soul and hers was created in a state of sanctifying grace. If you had the opportunity to create your mother, wouldn't you make her perfect in every way? This is why there are the doctrines of the perpetual virginity and Immaculate Conception of Mary.

Jesus refers to the blessed mother's sinless nature when He addresses her as "woman" in John 2:4 and 19:26. Today, one looks at Him addressing her in this manner and thinks this is disrespectful or that He is admonishing her. In fact, the blessed mother was not the first sinless woman, Adam's wife was also created sinless. When she was first created, Adam named her "woman" (Genesis 2:23). It was after the fall, when she was no longer sinless, that her name was changed to "Eve" (Genesis 3:20). By referring to the blessed mother as "woman," Jesus is recognizing her sinless nature. Like I said earlier, name changes in Holy Scripture are important.

All Christians will agree that there is at least one person who never sinned and that is our Lord and Savior. Being an exception means that there may be other possibilities of exceptions although we can agree that the circumstances of our Savior are unique being fully man and fully God. No other person future or past can make such a claim. As you know the Bible says that the blessed mother is "full" of God's grace at the Annunciation. We believe that God had prepared her for that moment of saying yes to be the God bearer. The womb that bore and nurtured our Lord is the Ark of the New Covenant which is Christ our Lord. God cannot dwell within sin so the blessed mother was saved by God's grace before she was even conceived in the womb immaculately. She was in need of a Savior as we all are and our Lord provided for her salvation and indeed her sanctity even before her conception. Being and remaining full of grace means that the blessed mother of God never sinned but would have been tempted to sin as the new Eve just as the original Eve was tempted. But just as her Son withstood temptation, her grace was so great that she was able to overcome all temptation.

Just for the record, the Bible also says that St. John the Baptist was saved from original sin but he was saved at birth and not conception. The blessed mother was unique in her immaculate conception.

“Why has the Catholic Church turned its back on God to clearly teach the doctrines of Demons?

Not to long ago your Pope declared that everyone who was sincere in their religion, no matter what god they followed, would enter into Heaven.

John 3:16

16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:18

18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

1 Timothy 2:5-6 (NRSVCE)

5 For there is one God; there is also one mediator between God and humankind, Christ Jesus, himself human, 6     who gave himself a ransom for all —this was attested at the right time.

As you can see Pope Francis was simply repeating what the Bible says. Jesus did die for all men to receive salvation. He opened up the gates of heaven to mankind. All that Jesus asks is that we believe in Him and follow His will in our lives.

Why does your Pope teach everyone can enter into Heaven, even those who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ is God?

He did not, but just taught the efficacy of what Jesus did on the cross in atoning for the sins of man.

Romans 10:9-13

9 if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

How can a Hindu receive Salvation if he refuses to believe that Jesus Christ is God?

He cannot!

Therefore what your Pope claimed is totally opposite of what the Holy Spirit teaches in the Bible.

No, the Pope has not said what you conclude at all. You are bearing false witness which is a mortal sin.

You need to leave the Catholic Church and return to your first Love with Jesus Christ. How can you enter into Heaven if you are listening to false doctrines?

You should ask yourself this, since it is you that is bearing false witness against another, which is a mortal sin against the Decalogue.

Your Soul is at stake here.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13

9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

I would be more worried about your own soul since it is you breaking one of God’s Commandments of bearing false witness against another. Please repent and restore yourself into the familial relationship with Christ that your sinfulness against the Pope has separated you from unless you repent. 1Cor 5:9-13 does not describe any Catholics that I know and certainly not the Pope. I am constantly mindful of my salvation and would never intentionally do as you have done here in bearing false witness.

God has created everything good including all of humanity. But, we are all born with a propensity to sin and the free will to resist that sin or embrace it. St. Paul addressed this in the following:

Romans 3:23 -For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God.

If one uses their free will to sin they are separating themselves further away from an eternity with God. Without repentance that will die in condemnation but if they live a life of repentance they will be saved by God’s grace.

Now, we know that God’s mercy is without limits but He is also just. Acknowledging this teaching we realize that we do not know who will be saved for sin may be private or public, both kinds of sin are known to the sinner and to God and it is by this unrepentant sin that we will be judged. We do know that all are called to salvation but that few respond fully to the call. We know that the path to salvation comes to a narrow gate where many will be unable to enter.

Mat 22:14- For many are called, but few are chosen.

Luk 13:24- Shall seek... Shall desire to be saved; but for want of taking sufficient pains, and being thoroughly in earnest, shall not attain to it.

Here are some of the fallacies of believing that all will be saved or that all good people will be saved, other than the fact that none of us are worthy of salvation on our own. It is natural for people to want to depend on God’s mercy alone for salvation but as I said before God does not provide mercy at the exclusion of justice. There are also those who believe that God will even save those who have no desire to be saved. This is an example of mercy without justice for it would not be just to save someone without a desire to be saved. He does not give mercy to those who do not desire it from Him. He allows us and indeed prompts us to come to Him by preparing us all to surrender to His law written on our hearts. This law is sufficient and without it no one would be convicted to follow Him and desire Him. Our conscience is formed by this law which is intuitive and not learned by hearing His Word or by anything but recognizing His creation which the Bible says is sufficient knowledge to come to faith and desire Him. In this we surrender to Him and become obedient to His will to desire Him. By that and a devotion to repent of our sins is sufficient for salvation. It is the path to the narrow gate that Scriptures teach. It is His grace through the Holy Spirit that we are called and convicted of His will which is contained in His law circumcised upon our hearts. His grace is not forced upon anyone but one must surrender to Him to receive it. It is a free gift that one can refuse and we must recognize that many will refuse His gift and fail to surrender to His law which has the result of one condemning them. So, as much as we desire as Christians that God’s mercy be extended to all people both good and bad, it will only be given to those who surrender to His law and recognizing His sovereignty while living in His will. It is by having a desire for His Grace and repenting when we fail through our sinfulness which results in His mercy.

For those who believe that all good people will be saved we must understand that none of us are good enough. We all sin through thought, word and deed. As a result it is only through Christ’s salvific work that we can be justified by our contrite repentance and be deserving of His mercy. God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph

Continued here:

“You need to compare what the Catholic Church teaches with the Truth in the Bible from the Holy Spirit.”

I have been doing that for more than 50 years and have never found any difference in the teaching confirming what the Bible says which is that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth and not some man-made counterfeit sect of Protestantism.

“If the Catholic Church teaches a different truth than what the Holy Spirit teaches you need to reject what the Catholic Church teaches and accept the Truth from the Holy Spirit.”

Really? Can you not put some specific examples of your scurrilous claim?

“How can you do the Will of the Father if you have no Truth in you? Read Matthew 7:21-23 and see what happens to those who do not do the Will of the Father. The do not enter into Heaven. Is this what you want? Not to be allowed to enter into Heaven?”

Do you really think that the will of the Father is different than the will of Jesus? Jesus prayed that we all be in unity in His Church the Catholic Church. I suppose you believe that it is OK not to do the will of Jesus and still be saved. That is a very odd position for a Christian to take.

“Your very Soul is at stake! Wide and broad is the road to destruction. But narrow and winding is the road to Heaven.”

But it is you taking the wide road by rejecting Christ’s Church and His will for unity. (Joh 17) The narrow way is the Church and not a man-made counterfeit sect to Christ’s own Church.

Galatians 3:11

The righteous man shall live by faith.

Its by Faith we live. Faith that every Word in the Bible IS the Truth from the Holy Spirit!

My faith is in Christ and not in a book that can easily be misinterpreted by the ignorant as you give example. The only authority for teaching given by Jesus was to His Church that the Bible calls the “pillar and foundation of the truth”. Jesus said of His Church that it would never succumb to the “Gates of Hell”. Jesus is not a liar and the Bible is not false teaching as you claim. Why do you ignore all the teaching in the Bible that says that only His Church that does the work of salvation. Only His Church was given the Holy Spirit to keep it from error.  The authority for Christians is Jesus, His Church and the Bible in that order. The Church has no authority apart from Christ and the Bible has no authority apart from the Church.

“Turn away from the lies in the Catholic Church and return to the truth that the Holy Spirit has for you!”

If you ever find a lie in the Catholic Church that you can reasonably support let me know. I have been searching for that lie most of my life and have yet to find it.

This is what Jesus Christ teaches. That we live by Faith!

Yes, and according to the Bible we are to live by that faith in unity in His Church and not one of the tens of thousands of counterfeits made by men who cannot endure the sound doctrines of Christ’s own Church.

Continued here:

“Its a shame on YOU and the Catholic Church that you put the teachings of lying demons above the teachings of the Holy Spirit.”

You are so confused about the teaching of Scriptures and since that is your sole authority you make egregious errors. Obviously you have no teachers that teach sound doctrine.

“ Do you not know that its the Holy Spirit who has the Truth?”

Of course and if you read your Bible it will teach you that the Holy Spirit was given to the Church at Pentecost to protect the Church from doctrinal error. The Church as a result cannot teach error as it has the protection of the Holy Spirit. That is why the Bible says that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth”. It is through this authority that the Church wrote the New Testament and canonized the Christian Bible.

“Do you not know that what the Holy Spirit says is greater in Truth than the corrupted Catholic Church?”

No, according to sacred tradition in the Bible it is the same truth as the Bible calls the Church the “pillar and foundation of the truth”.

“God never put the Catholic Church above the Holy Spirit, it was Satan who has done this.”

There has never been any example of such a practice which is impossible. Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the Church to guide it to all truth and the Holy Spirit has never failed the Church from this promise.

“You wrote: " The Church has no authority apart from Christ and the Bible has no authority apart from the Church."

You have it backwards. The Bible has authority from God not from the Church. It was God the Holy Spirit who wrote the Bible, not the Catholic Church.

No, It was Catholic Christians that wrote the New Testament and canonized the Christian Bible under the authority of Christ and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

“Until you repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you cannot receive the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.”

You seem to have deluded yourself into thinking that you have the ability or gift to know the hearts of others. You are not God and do not have this ability or gift. (Luk 6:37, Mat 7:1-5)

“Without the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit you cannot understand the thoughts of God. How can you understand what God is saying in the Bible if you do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit?”

Indeed!

“This is why you are so easily lead astray from the Truth in the Bible to accepting the lies of Demons.”

How did you come to this judgement. What are these lies of demons that you speak?

2 Peter 2:1-3 (NKJV)

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.

3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

“False prophets have entered into the Catholic Church and you are one of them.”

The Church speaks with this one voice of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said to His Church, “He who hears you hears me” (Luk 10:16) So, are you saying that Jesus and the Bible are false teaching and that the promise of Jesus and the Holy Spirit is a false promise?

I am not a prophet but a teacher instead. Jesus left us with an infallible teacher that is the Holy Spirit that speaks through Christ’s own Church and I hear His voice.

Are you saying that God giving the Holy Spirit to the Church is insufficient to lead the Church to truth?

“Repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior before its too late and you spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire.”

By God’s grace,I did that in my youth and continue to repent of my sins.

“May God have mercy on you soul for teaching the doctrines of Demons.”

I think that it would be appropriate for you to identify these doctrines of demons that you claim that the Church teaches and be prepared to support your contentions. The truth is that it is impossible for the Church to teach falsely on doctrinal matters. That was the purpose of Jesus giving the Holy Spirit to the Church so that anyone seeking Christ will know where the empirical truth can be found. I do depend on God’s mercy for my sinful soul.

God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph

continued:

“Israel existed as a NATION and a COUNTRY thousands of years ago.”

No, the Nation of Israel was created in 1949.

“The only source for the Truth from God IS the Holy Spirit and the Bible. You and your Cult the Catholic Church has no Truth. Only God has the Truth and i listen to the Holy Spirit and what He says.”

I do not know where you get the idea that the only truth comes from the Holy Spirit and the Bible. It is ironic that you claim this as the Bible disagrees with your claim. The order of authority in the Bible is clearly stated as Jesus. His Church and then the Bible which is written by Catholic Christians and canonized by the Church. The Bible is not for private interpretation but is to be interpreted within the teaching of the Church that produced it under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that the Bible says leads the Church from ALL error and not each individual who twists the Bible to fit their prejudice as you are a perfect example. So according to your statements you do not believe in biblical teaching unless it supports your unreasonable hatred for Christ’s own Church. If you actually listened to the Holy Spirit you would follow Jesus and His Church since His stated will the night before His crucifixion is that we have unity in His Church and not one of the tens of thousands of man-made counterfeits which you follow and are faithful. You show yourself to be an example as one who cannot endure the sound doctrines of Christ’s own Church the Catholic Church.

“The Truth is not in the Catholic Church and I have proved it. The Holy Spirit teaches Mary was a sinner, Romans 3:23 for ALL have sinned.”

The only thing you have proven is your lack of biblical scholarship and your prejudice against the teaching of Jesus and the Bible. Obviously this verse is showing the general state of mankind but certainly there are exceptions as the bible tells us which are Jesus, the blessed mother of God and arguably St. John the Baptist. One example of sinlessness is enough to prove your prejudice false and revel your lack of biblical scholarship and ignorance of Scriptures.

“The Holy Spirit teaches Mary was not Righteous, Romans 3:10-13, none is Righteous, no not one.”

Again this is a general statement of mans general state but again there is at least one exception and more.

“The Catholic Church has no Truth because it teaches lies about Mary.”

Why should I or anyone else believe you since you have been impotent to support even one example of your claim. I know of none of these lies that you claim. An accusation does NOT  equal guilt and it is impossible for one that believes and trusts in Jesus to believe such accusations. He promised that His Church will never fall into apostasy. You claim it has calling Jesus a liar or an incompetent in founding His Church. The Bible is not a false teacher when it calls the Church the “pillar and foundation of the truth”. For one that believes in the heresy of “Sola Scriptura” it is odd that you would proclaim by your statements that the Bible teaches falsely.

“You still do not understand. What God says has more Truth and authority than what the Catholic Church teaches. I read what the Catholic Church says and i compare it to what the Holy Spirit teaches in the Bible.”

If you truly believed what you are stating we would not be having this conversation. The reason we are having this discussion is because you do not accept what Jesus and the Holy Spirit teach in the Bible. Jesus teaches that the order of authority is Himself, His Church and then the Bible understood with the teaching authority given by Jesus to His Church. Again the Bible is not for private private interpretation. That is the primary cause for the tens of thousands of Protestant sects that cannot agree on even the simplest and most apparent teaching of Scripture. They cannot even agree that Jesus is God and the 2nd person in the Trinity of the one God. From your comments to me so far in our discussions you appear to be one of these even though you refuse to give me your affiliation.  Why do you hide this? Are you ashamed of the fact that you are a part of a heretical man-made sect?

If you indeed did as you claim you would find that the teaching of Jesus, the Church and the Bible are in perfect accordance with one another without even a hint of contradiction. That is further evidenced by the fact that you continuously make the claim without being able to support even one of your accusations.

“You cannot win fighting against the Holy Spirit. You may hate what the Holy Spirit says, but you will lose in the end.”

Indeed and neither can you even though you so far are refusing to listen to the Holy Spirit that led you to me for help in overcoming your ignorance and hatred.

“Its not about the Catholic Church and what they say, its ALL about what God says in the Bible. The Bible is from the Holy Spirit and is greater in authority and Truth than the Catholic Church!”

The writers of the New Testament of the Bible were all, without exception, Catholic Christians. The Christian canon of the Bible was decided by the Church under Christ’s teaching authority given to the Church in the late 4th and early 5th centuries after the three African Synods led by St. Augustine when they ratified the decision of the previous Churhc council in Rome. Before this there was no Christian Canon of Scripture and the truth was spread by oral means by the Church of which you have so much hatred. The oral authority of the Church preceded the formation of the Bible for centuries. Jesus gave all teaching authority to his Church and not a book that is the product of the Church. Actually according to Scripture it has no authority outside the charism of Jesus to His Church.

“My only source of Truth is from the Bible! I do not need to listen to anything else other then the Bible from the Holy Spirit! I put God above all, you Catholics put the Catholic Church above all, even above God!”

You are making an empty claim against the Church unless you can support what you claim. Again and accusation does not equal fact. For facts you must have some proof and you have none because there is not any proof of what you claim. I will state the position of the Church and the Bible which is the authority according to Jesus and the Bible is the teaching of Jesus, His Church and lastly the Bible understood in the community of Christ’s Church.

“This is why i say you have not received Salvation because you always interpret the Scriptures with Mary being the main focus. ITS NOT ALL ABOUT MARY!”Its ALL about God and what He has done for us.

It seems Mary IS the main focus in your life. Therefore one has to conclude that Mary is your god.”

You are correct of the fact that I have not yet received salvation as salvation is a lifelong process for those in Christ that is not completed until our death when we are judged by Christ. If the blessed mother had not said yes to the angel of God then she would have been disobedient. Instead she said yes and as a result was an integral part of our salvation The blessed mother of God was and is the first Christian and it is by her example of obedience that we should strive to follow. She should not be vilified like you practice for her obedience to God. Certainly she is not an example that you have followed as you refuse the unity that Christ prayed for before His crucifixion. God is the focus of my faith of which the blessed mother of God is the greatest example of all times to emulate in her devotion and obedience to God.

No, in our discussions this has never occurred even once much less than always. You are the one that is very strangely preoccupied with an unreasonable hatred for Jesus’ mother. You want to marginalize her far below what the Bible teaches out of some kind of perverse prejudice that you cannot explain. In our conversations it is you that has made the blessed mother of God your focus. You are accusing me of your actions and that is ridiculous. I understand perfectly for your statements that you have a hatred for Jesus’ mother for some very odd reason. It seems to be a hatred that can only be demonically inspired. I have one God and that is the Trinity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The following statement reveal the truth in what I have said…...

“God the Father is my God. God the Son is my God. God the Holy Spirit is my God. I have no need of your god Mary in my life.

What can Mary do for me that God cannot do? God is Eternal, forever, the most powerful being ever! Mary was a mere human, a sinner, has absolutely no powers of any kind, died and was buried in a grave. So why would i need Mary when i have God!

You can keep Mary as your god and i will follow the one and only True God!

You are so self delusional that its a joke.”

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit had a need for the blessed mother of God and blessed her beyond any woman. She said yes to God to bear God incarnate Jesus for the world so that we may be saved. That alone is a reason for all true Christians to honor her and use her as their example. Me delusional? Not a chance. God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph

Eli Soriano attacking the veracity of the Catholic Mass

[ Eli Soriano is the founder of the Arian sect called the Church of God International that is primarily located in the Philippines. It is a schismatic sect of the Jehovah Witnesses and has similar teachings adopting the same evil heresies. The words of Eli Soriano are in italics and my response is in bold. ]

“To be ignorant may be pardonable because it is not being hopeless, but to delude oneself is another.”

Indeed!

“After claiming that the wine in the cup of the Catholic priest is the real blood of the Lord Jesus by the process of transubstantiation, here comes Catholic apologetics saying that their mass is an unbloody manner of sacrificing Jesus Christ – something they do-again and again.”

First of all this is not the claim of Catholic apologists but the teaching of our Lord and Savior Jesus.

Catholics see the Scriptures written about the Eucharist as literal teaching by Jesus and have interpreted Jesus’ words as literal since before the NT Scriptures were written as recorded in Scripture. Catholics find no reason to interpret Jesus’ teaching to be anything but literal from a hermeneutical, historical or theological perspective.

Some Protestants, on the other hand, are very much like the proto-Protestants who were former disciples and left Jesus after His teaching in John 6, about the commandment to eat His Body and drink His Blood. They remain in the carnal sense and deny the miracle of the Eucharist. They believe that instead of being present at the one sacrifice of Christ, that what Jesus instituted is a symbolic ordinance instead.

So, what we are speaking of is two totally different practices. The first identical to what the apostles taught and put into practice which is the real presence and the second a modernist interpretation of a man Ulrich Zwingli which is a symbolic ordinance. The first is actually Christ on the Cross where the worshippers are at the foot of the cross; the second is just a remembering of what Christ did as recorded in the Bible. When a Catholic Christian remembers Christ’s sacrifice it is from being there, when a Protestant remembers Christ’s sacrifice it is recalling what is written in Scriptures about the event. Certainly, one should be able to understand the level of passion one would have after being at the foot of the cross compared to the level of one just remembering what is written in a book. So even though some do not take it lightly, even though they do not believe, it cannot be the same passion for an exercise or ordinance in supposed obedience, as the Protestant act can be described; to the Catholic practice of being present with the living corporeal Christ at the cross and eating His real body and Blood as He commanded.

It must be noted for understanding that for many of the Reformers that this approach by Zwingli was necessary to give some credibility to the new Protestant movement which denied the successive apostolic leadership of the Church established by Christ. These reformers knew full well that they had no true legitimacy and no authority from Christ. They also knew that without a legitimate episcopacy that they could not continue Holy Orders, the Sacraments nor do they have the authority to confect the Eucharist which authority can only be given by Christ through the Church. Therefore, they could not continue the Eucharist even if they desired without a valid priesthood.

(Mat 15:7 DRB) Hypocrites, well hath Isaiah prophesied of you, saying:(Mat 15:8 DRB) This people honoureth me with their lips: but their heart is far from me.(Mat 15:9 DRB) And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and commandments of men.

(Mar 7:5 DRB) And the Pharisees and scribes asked him: Why do not thy disciples walk according to the tradition of the ancients, but they eat bread with common hands?

(Mar 7:6 DRB) But he answering, said to them: Well did Isaias prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

(Mar 7:7 DRB) And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and precepts of men.

(Mar 7:8 DRB) For leaving the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, the washing of pots and of cups: and many other things you do like to these.(Mar 7:9 DRB) And he said to them: Well do you make void the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.

(Luk 6:46 DRB) And why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say?

Of course it is not Church traditions that is the only reason to believe in the truly, real and substantial Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord as it is the teaching directly from our Lord and from the original disciples of our Lord maintained as the deposit of truth from the very beginning of the Church founded at Pentecost. The Church has been in total agreement with this teaching and did not receive substantial disagreement until Ulrich Zwingli in the 16th century argued for a real absence of Christ in the Eucharist and sought to change it from a Sacrament introduced by our Lord to a mere exercise or as some call it an ordinance. The other rebellious Protestants were reluctant to accept Zwingli’s teaching but eventually it prevailed among the majority of Protestants because of the obvious problem the new syncretic blend of Secular Humanism and Christianity and that   there was no valid clergy or teaching authority in the new Protestant movement. They had to find new man-made heretical doctrines to be a bulwark against the fullness of truth contained in the Catholic Church and adopted the heresies of the Solas, Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide and Sola Christi. Such a departure from orthodoxy made it possible and necessary to reject the foundational and fundamental teaching of the Church, which is the miracle of anamnesis, and deny the truly real and substantial Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord from their worship replacing it with an exposition of Scripture and allegorical interpretation of God’s Word instead. Instead of worshiping the corporeal Christ they worshiped mans opinion of God’s Word exposed by men without any God given authority to teach. It is not surprising that there are exponentially increasing heresies to match the exponentially increasing schisms within their body. Essentially it is a movement of division within the Corpus Christi which by these fruits it is fair to assume that this is not from God but from the author of confusion and lies. So, actually the reason that you do not accept “anamnesis “ is at least to some substantial degree because of Protestant traditions taught by Ulrich Zwingli and his followers in their protest of the teaching of Christ and the disciples in an effort to give some credibility to their new desperate syncretic movement.

In Koine Greek the literal meaning of “anamnesis” is the “loss of forgetfulness” and comes from Platonian philosophy. It does not mean to recall a past event in one’s life as does the word “remembrance” (Luke 22:19). Certainly for that to be the meaning one would no longer be able to remember after a generation or two remembrances would be impossible. That is why Jesus said to the disciples that His teaching in John 6 could not be discerned with the carnal senses which would pass away with time but that this teaching was eternal and must be discerned with the knowledge from the Spirit instead for perpetuity or at least until Jesus returns again to judge mankind and unite our soul with our glorified bodies. Some Protestant exegetes are forced to understand Jesus’ teaching at the Synod in Capernaum in a very strained, twisted and awkward way saying that Jesus said the flesh will profit nothing suggesting that He really was not teaching that what we understand that we are to eat and to drink is not His truly real and substantial Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. Such is an utterly an absurd interpretation following Jesus saying that one must eat His Body and drink His Blood to have eternal life.

How can anyone with intellect and reason conclude that Jesus had just do anything else but contradict the teaching that He had labored so succinctly to explain to the point that those who were His disciples but the twelve left Him never to follow Him again. He convinced them of the literalness of His words but they could not imagine by knowing that what Jesus was commanding of the faithful was to separate themselves or be cut off from the familial relationship of the Old Covenant under the Mosaic laws that forbid the drinking of blood.

Their leaving proves that they understood Jesus literally as did the 12 disciples. Jesus admitted to the twelve that this was hard teaching as they were aware of the teaching of Moses as well. Jesus did not go into another explanation saying that He was speaking allegorically but instead did not deny the literalness of His teaching even to the twelve. Instead He told them that this understanding would come from their spiritual senses rather than the carnal which is the true and only logical meaning of the flesh profits nothing. Surely it does profit if it must be eaten for eternal life as is the only logical understanding. Jesus said to the twelve that remained, Do you wish to leave also and St. Peter answered, “Where else shall we go as you have the words of eternal life”. Their spiritual senses or “anamnesis” that they drew upon kept them from leaving. What Jesus taught would be clearly and fully understood from the cross in due time when the disciples would truly experience a “loss of forgetfulness”. For truly the twelve had a prepared conscience from eternity for them to draw upon that was not unlike the law that God circumcised on everyone’s heart.

As Plato described “anamnesis” it is a prepared spiritual knowledge just as Jesus called the listeners at Capernaum to draw upon which is an intuitive knowledge that in Christian theological understanding means that it is knowledge placed in the human conscience (as defined by Pope Benedict XVI in “On Conscience: Two Essays by Cardinal Ratzinger. San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 2007”) before becoming the Pope who said that the central anthropological and ontological meaning of conscience is anamnesis) that we can draw upon for understanding the miracles of God and thus accepting them even without reason or intellectual affirmation. Plato lacked the fullness of understanding in that he erroneously believed in reincarnation as the source of this knowledge instead of God being the source through imputation. Plato was correct in believing that the soul is immortal.

If it was not for this prepared conscience man could not even believe in God as the Holy Spirit bringing one to faith would have nothing to appeal to for this faith. Faith does not come from intellect or reason although faith is not devoid of these faculties but from a prepared conscience that can respond to the Spirit of God.

The miracle of anamnesis is that we can call on the knowledge that has been placed in our eternal soul by God. As Jesus said in John 6 the flesh profits nothing but the Spirit reveals all. Through God’s miracle of anamnesis the Mass is not a re-sacrifice of our Lord as you claim but instead we are present as the whole Church, Militant, Suffering and Triumphant in the one sacrifice for all to offer with Christ the one sacrifice to the Father from the Cross.

“First off, history records that Catholics had arguments as to what transubstantiation would mean in their ritual of the Eucharist: whether wine becomes blood and the bread, the body of Christ, but the appearance of the substance of wine and bread are still the same; or whether wine really becomes the blood of Christ, and the bread his body. In the first, the change is in the meaning as thought so in the mid-twentieth century; in the second, it is literal.  Pope Paul VI was saying so in 1965 with finality: it is the literal body and blood of Christ. And now, they find comfort that transubstantiation has plunged back to emphasizing that wine is still wine in appearance, bread is still bread in appearance, but those are equally still the body and blood of Christ. It now has a different name: Real Presence (Source: Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: transubstantiation).

Still and all, even to the uninformed, that is double-speak of the highest degree and thriving in  appearance of the delusion, just so to continue in a practice not commanded in the Bible.”

Certainly the Eucharist is food for the believer if one is to believe Jesus’ in His colloquy at Capernaum. It is food for endurance till eternal life. It provides the grace necessary to complete the race. Jesus compares it to the manna that was eaten in the desert to sustain the Israelites. But Jesus is speaking of the New Covenant requiring a new sustenance which is His Body and Blood. In making this comparison He says that real bread comes from the father just as He and then says that He is the bread of life. If one eats this bread they will live forever. The disciples listening to Him began to realize that Jesus was not speaking metaphorically but literally and then we come to the following verse:

(Joh 6:52 DRB) (6:53) The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat

Then Jesus said in unambiguous literal language:

(Joh 6:53 DRB) (6:54) Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.

The following verse indicates the purpose of eating His body and drinking His blood. It is so that we can “abidete” or in other words remains in Him by the Grace bestowed by the act of receiving His Body and His Blood. But the Eucharist benefits us even more in that it augments our union with Christ as the principal fruit of receiving the Eucharist is an intimate union with Christ.

(Joh 6:56 DRB) (6:57) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him.

An additional benefit of the Eucharist is that it is impossible to unite to Christ without the cleansing of past sins and preserving us from future sins through His grace. This is part of the sanctification process where we grow in our faith in him which separates us further from the risk of mortal sin. Additionally, the Eucharist participation renews, strengthens and deepens ones incorporation into the Church which is achieved through Baptism. It joins us to the entire Church Militant, Suffering and Triumphant.

This is what St. Ignatius said about the Eucharist at the end of the first century, “ the one bread that provides the medicine of immortality, the antidote for death, and the food that makes live forever in Jesus Christ.”

One may ask the question does God’s spiritual work always require a physical channel. “Always” is a very dangerous position to take when speaking of God as God can as our sovereign creator do things however he wishes. So this is really not a matter of “always” but instead, did God use the physical channel of Jesus transforming simple bread and wine into His body and Blood to bestow the Grace of eternal life.

I was reading another apologist’s commentary some time ago and He related how some Protestants get an almost Docetist view when it comes to the Eucharist. They have no problem believing something to be spiritual but when it comes to mixing spirit and matter they seem to experience intellectual and theological mind block. This is the usual excuse for not believing in Sacraments because a spiritual reality is being conveyed by means of matter. They may even believe that this is a violation of the divine plan. Matter instead of being used is to be avoided which would explain why some have difficulties understanding the incarnation. Many believe that it would be much easier if God did not dirty himself with matter. The Eucharist proves that God loves matter because He comes to us under the appearance of bread and wine. In doing so there is in contradiction in Christ being physically and Sacramentally present.

One may question how can Christ be present in the Eucharist and be also in heaven and that is a fair question. First of all, in my explanation let me make it clear that how Christ performs this miracle is a great mystery that we accept on faith through our spirit to His. If we look at the account of the last supper we see Jesus present in two ways. He is present at the table in a natural way and is present also in a sacramental way which is no different than the Eucharistic experience today and through the history of the Church. How this is done while being a mystery is not impossibility just because it cannot be understood fully with our reason. We can all accept as Christians that God is everywhere and that He is present in a spiritual sense when we are gathered together. This is no greater a mystery than him reigning in heaven in His glorified body and on earth in His natural body. If he can create the universe from nothing can he not make bread and wine into His Body and Blood? These things may be beyond our understanding but certainly not beyond God’s abilities.

For those who do not believe in the real presence there are the difficulties of the following verses:

(1Co 11:26 DRB) For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come.

(1Co 11:27 DRB) Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.

(1Co 11:28 DRB) But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice.

(1Co 11:29 DRB) For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

(1Co 11:30 DRB) Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you: and many sleep.

People who refuse to believe in the real presence believe that this represents a metaphor. But, if it is a mere metaphor, how can one be “guilty of the body and Blood” when one receives unworthily? As one scholar put it “Plain and simple reason seem to tell us that the presence of Christ’s body is necessary for an offense committed against it.” (Nicholas Cardinal Wiseman, Lectures on the Real Presence) It would seem reasonable that one cannot be guilty of Christ’s body and Blood if it is not present in the Sacrament. Other scholars said ” No one is guilty of homicide if he merely does damage to the statue or picture of a man without touching the man in person.” (Rumble and Carty, Eucharist Quizzes to a Street Preacher) The question might be asked in light of St. Paul’s teaching, can one be theologically satisfied in the meaningless belief in a Real Absence than the fuller meaning of a Real Presence.

Here is the defense:

“There can be no question of a grievous offense against Christ Himself unless we suppose that the true Body and the true Blood of Christ are really present in the Eucharist.” (Source: Online Catholic Encyclopedia.http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm).

If what is in the cup is the real blood of Jesus, how can the mass be an unbloody sacrifice?

With God all things are possible. We simply trust in Him rather than the criticisms of men devoid of His divine grace. We trust the messenger Jesus rather than those who through their carnal senses try to understand those things that are discerned in the Spirit. We trust the teacher Jesus and not men.

If what is in the cup is only symbolic blood, it is also symbolically bloody, doesn’t it follow?

Of course not as you remain in the carnal sense which Jesus said would prohibit understanding that comes from the spiritual senses. You are like the proto-Protestants who left Jesus in Capernaum never to follow Him again.

Someone criticizing me said that I misappropriated the prophecy in Malachi 1:11 for me after which she claims that it is rightfully for the Catholic Church, for they are the only group that has the incense mentioned in the prophecy.  Let us read,

MALACHI 1:11 (KJV)

For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

I dare say, this verse does not apply to the Catholic Church for the simple reason that they do not understand the verse!  The incense mentioned in the prophecy is not the literal incense that Catholic priests burn at their altars! Notice what is said in this verse.

REVELATION 5:8 (RSV)

And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

How can literal incense reach God’s throne when it cannot even penetrate into the atmosphere?  That they in the Catholic Church do not know the meaning of the verse they are appropriating for themselves is certainly misappropriation!

Again, like those that left Jesus at Capernaum you remain in the carnal sense and do not trust the messenger Jesus who said that only in the spiritual sense can we understand the things of God. Jesus illustrated that those in Capernaum remained in the carnal sense instead of the spiritual and as a result did not discern the truth of Christ’s words. Trust the messenger Jesus

“The sacrifice that Christians should always offer is not the Lord Jesus Christ for when He offered Himself in Calvary He made an offering “once for all and once forever.” The Bible says so.

HEBREWS 10:12 (KJV)

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;”

That is correct and it is precisely what the Jesus and the Church teaches.

“And what is that sacrifice that Christians should offer to God? Take note that it is not something outside of the one doing the sacrifice.

HEBREWS 13:15 (KJV)

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.”

This is precisely what the Church practices fulfilling the prophecy of Malichi.

“Prayers and praises are the sacrifice that we should offer again and again to God, “that is the fruit of our lips giving thanks to His name,” and not the mass of the misled Catholics.  It jives with the prophecy in Malachi that says, “My name shall be great among the Gentiles.””

As I said before, the Church teaches one sacrifice for all and NOT a sacrifice offered “again and again” as you claim. It is instead a representation of the one sacrifice for all through Christ’s miracle of anamnesis.

“Praying and praising His name is symbolic of the incense which is pure sacrifice that will reach the throne of the Almighty!  It is not something material, for then, not everyone would have access to it. It is not something readily found in those who prefer to delude themselves by way of ascribing spiritual presence to bread and wine that they call Christ’s body and blood – which they offer again and again.”

You clearly lack the understanding of Scriptures in regards to the Mass which appears to intentional out of prejudice for your doctrines of men. I find that your eisegetical approach to Scriptures in this teaching on the Eucharist is not based on any true, plausible, or scholarly biblical understanding. You seem to be unable to escape your carnal understanding of Christ’s own teaching that He taught could only be understood in the spiritual senses of an individual. He warned in John 6 not to rely on the carnal senses as did the proto Protestants that left Him  in Capernaum. Those , the disciples, remained with Him because they were willing and able to discern His teaching in the spiritual sense it was intended.

“And mind you, the greatness of His name will be known from the east to the west, not otherwise!

The Catholic Church started its mission of misleading people from the west! Beginning with their rituals, they really do mislead a lot.”

You truly missed in being able to prosecute your eisegetical belief that Jesus was speaking symbolically even though He said that He was speaking literal truth in John 6:64. You make a claim of the Church founded by Christ personally is misleading people but yet you could not support such a case in your commentary with anything but uninspired carnal beliefs devoid of spiritual discernment. God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph