08 May, 2013

Helping a Jehovah Witness understand the teaching and practices of the Church



(Daddy Bob) If they were not praying to idols and candles, what were they doing kneeling down towards the idols and candles and crossing themselves?”

(Cristoiglesia) I apologize in advance for pointing out the absurdity of your claims. I do not do this to embarrass you but to instruct you and to save you from making such ridiculous errors in the future. Catholics do not pray to candles or idols. There are no idols in Catholic Churches or Catholic homes. Idolatry is strictly prohibited not only in the Decalogue but in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The first is the Word of God and the second is God’s inspired teaching to the Church. Since I suspect you will not deny the teaching of Scripture I will not post the prohibition against idolatry but it also states that it is prohibited as the Catechism.

First of all crossing oneself is a form of prayer where we direct our prayers to the Holy Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We often begin and end our prayers by this action. I suppose that you are saying that praying in the proximity of candles and religious art that you seem to think are idols even though they do not meet any criteria for idols. An idol is something that is worshiped as God. Catholics are forbidden from such practices or beliefs and to do so results in an immediate self-excommunication of the participant.

Let me give you an example….I often bow beside my bed after awakening in the morning and pray. Since I am in close proximity of my bed following your logic, I am worshiping my bed. You would obviously declare that my bed is an idol to be consistent in your accusation. Are you sure you want to continue with such ridiculous analogies?

 Here is what the Catechism says about your accusation:

“ PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST

SECTION TWO
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

CHAPTER ONE
"YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND"

ARTICLE 1
THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

    I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.3

    It is written: "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve."4

I. "YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE"

2084 God makes himself known by recalling his all-powerful loving, and liberating action in the history of the one he addresses: "I brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." The first word contains the first commandment of the Law: "You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve him. . . . You shall not go after other gods."5 God's first call and just demand is that man accept him and worship him.

2085 The one and true God first reveals his glory to Israel.6 The revelation of the vocation and truth of man is linked to the revelation of God. Man's vocation is to make God manifest by acting in conformity with his creation "in the image and likeness of God":

    There will never be another God, Trypho, and there has been no other since the world began . . . than he who made and ordered the universe. We do not think that our God is different from yours. He is the same who brought your fathers out of Egypt "by his powerful hand and his outstretched arm." We do not place our hope in some other god, for there is none, but in the same God as you do: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.7

2086 "The first commandment embraces faith, hope, and charity. When we say 'God' we confess a constant, unchangeable being, always the same, faithful and just, without any evil. It follows that we must necessarily accept his words and have complete faith in him and acknowledge his authority. He is almighty, merciful, and infinitely beneficent. Who could not place all hope in him? Who could not love him when contemplating the treasures of goodness and love he has poured out on us? Hence the formula God employs in the Scripture at the beginning and end of his commandments: 'I am the LORD.'"8

Faith

2087 Our moral life has its source in faith in God who reveals his love to us. St. Paul speaks of the "obedience of faith"9 as our first obligation. He shows that "ignorance of God" is the principle and explanation of all moral deviations.10 Our duty toward God is to believe in him and to bear witness to him.

2088 The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. There are various ways of sinning against faith:

Voluntary doubt about the faith disregards or refuses to hold as true what God has revealed and the Church proposes for belief. Involuntary doubt refers to hesitation in believing, difficulty in overcoming objections connected with the faith, or also anxiety aroused by its obscurity. If deliberately cultivated doubt can lead to spiritual blindness.

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."11

* Hope

2090 When God reveals Himself and calls him, man cannot fully respond to the divine love by his own powers. He must hope that God will give him the capacity to love Him in return and to act in conformity with the commandments of charity. Hope is the confident expectation of divine blessing and the beatific vision of God; it is also the fear of offending God's love and of incurring punishment.

2091 The first commandment is also concerned with sins against hope, namely, despair and presumption:

By despair, man ceases to hope for his personal salvation from God, for help in attaining it or for the forgiveness of his sins. Despair is contrary to God's goodness, to his justice - for the Lord is faithful to his promises - and to his mercy.

2092 There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God's almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit).

* Charity

2093 Faith in God's love encompasses the call and the obligation to respond with sincere love to divine charity. The first commandment enjoins us to love God above everything and all creatures for him and because of him.12

2094 One can sin against God's love in various ways:

- indifference neglects or refuses to reflect on divine charity; it fails to consider its prevenient goodness and denies its power.

- ingratitude fails or refuses to acknowledge divine charity and to return him love for love.

- lukewarmness is hesitation or negligence in responding to divine love; it can imply refusal to give oneself over to the prompting of charity.

- acedia or spiritual sloth goes so far as to refuse the joy that comes from God and to be repelled by divine goodness.

- hatred of God comes from pride. It is contrary to love of God, whose goodness it denies, and whom it presumes to curse as the one who forbids sins and inflicts punishments.

II. "HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE"

2095 The theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity inform and give life to the moral virtues. Thus charity leads us to render to God what we as creatures owe him in all justice. The virtue of religion disposes us to have this attitude.

* Adoration

2096 Adoration is the first act of the virtue of religion. To adore God is to acknowledge him as God, as the Creator and Savior, the Lord and Master of everything that exists, as infinite and merciful Love. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve," says Jesus, citing Deuteronomy.13

2097 To adore God is to acknowledge, in respect and absolute submission, the "nothingness of the creature" who would not exist but for God. To adore God is to praise and exalt him and to humble oneself, as Mary did in the Magnificat, confessing with gratitude that he has done great things and holy is his name.14 The worship of the one God sets man free from turning in on himself, from the slavery of sin and the idolatry of the world.

* Prayer

2098 The acts of faith, hope, and charity enjoined by the first commandment are accomplished in prayer. Lifting up the mind toward God is an expression of our adoration of God: prayer of praise and thanksgiving, intercession and petition. Prayer is an indispensable condition for being able to obey God's commandments. "[We] ought always to pray and not lose heart."15

Sacrifice

2099 It is right to offer sacrifice to God as a sign of adoration and gratitude, supplication and communion: "Every action done so as to cling to God in communion of holiness, and thus achieve blessedness, is a true sacrifice."16

2100 Outward sacrifice, to be genuine, must be the expression of spiritual sacrifice: "The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit. . . . "17 The prophets of the Old Covenant often denounced sacrifices that were not from the heart or not coupled with love of neighbor.18 Jesus recalls the words of the prophet Hosea: "I desire mercy, and not sacrifice."19 The only perfect sacrifice is the one that Christ offered on the cross as a total offering to the Father's love and for our salvation.20 By uniting ourselves with his sacrifice we can make our lives a sacrifice to God.

Promises and vows

2101 In many circumstances, the Christian is called to make promises to God. Baptism and Confirmation, Matrimony and Holy Orders always entail promises. Out of personal devotion, the Christian may also promise to God this action, that prayer, this alms-giving, that pilgrimage, and so forth. Fidelity to promises made to God is a sign of the respect owed to the divine majesty and of love for a faithful God.

2102 "A vow is a deliberate and free promise made to God concerning a possible and better good which must be fulfilled by reason of the virtue of religion,"21 A vow is an act of devotion in which the Christian dedicates himself to God or promises him some good work. By fulfilling his vows he renders to God what has been promised and consecrated to Him. The Acts of the Apostles shows us St. Paul concerned to fulfill the vows he had made.22

2103 The Church recognizes an exemplary value in the vows to practice the evangelical counsels:23

    Mother Church rejoices that she has within herself many men and women who pursue the Savior's self-emptying more closely and show it forth more clearly, by undertaking poverty with the freedom of the children of God, and renouncing their own will: they submit themselves to man for the sake of God, thus going beyond what is of precept in the matter of perfection, so as to conform themselves more fully to the obedient Christ.24

The Church can, in certain cases and for proportionate reasons, dispense from vows and promises25

The social duty of religion and the right to religious freedom

2104 "All men are bound to seek the truth, especially in what concerns God and his Church, and to embrace it and hold on to it as they come to know it."26 This duty derives from "the very dignity of the human person."27 It does not contradict a "sincere respect" for different religions which frequently "reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men,"28 nor the requirement of charity, which urges Christians "to treat with love, prudence and patience those who are in error or ignorance with regard to the faith."29

2105 The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially. This is "the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ."30 By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them "to infuse the Christian spirit into the mentality and mores, laws and structures of the communities in which [they] live."31 The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church.32 Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies.33

2106 "Nobody may be forced to act against his convictions, nor is anyone to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience in religious matters in private or in public, alone or in association with others, within due limits."34 This right is based on the very nature of the human person, whose dignity enables him freely to assent to the divine truth which transcends the temporal order. For this reason it "continues to exist even in those who do not live up to their obligation of seeking the truth and adhering to it."35

2107 "If because of the circumstances of a particular people special civil recognition is given to one religious community in the constitutional organization of a state, the right of all citizens and religious communities to religious freedom must be recognized and respected as well."36

2108 The right to religious liberty is neither a moral license to adhere to error, nor a supposed right to error,37 but rather a natural right of the human person to civil liberty, i.e., immunity, within just limits, from external constraint in religious matters by political authorities. This natural right ought to be acknowledged in the juridical order of society in such a way that it constitutes a civil right.38

2109 The right to religious liberty can of itself be neither unlimited nor limited only by a "public order" conceived in a positivist or naturalist manner.39 The "due limits" which are inherent in it must be determined for each social situation by political prudence, according to the requirements of the common good, and ratified by the civil authority in accordance with "legal principles which are in conformity with the objective moral order."40

III. "YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME"

2110 The first commandment forbids honoring gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people. It proscribes superstition and irreligion. Superstition in some sense represents a perverse excess of religion; irreligion is the vice contrary by defect to the virtue of religion.

Superstition

2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.41

Idolatry

2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46

2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47

Divination and magic

2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity.

Irreligion

2118 God's first commandment condemns the main sins of irreligion: tempting God, in words or deeds, sacrilege, and simony.

2119 Tempting God consists in putting his goodness and almighty power to the test by word or deed. Thus Satan tried to induce Jesus to throw himself down from the Temple and, by this gesture, force God to act.49 Jesus opposed Satan with the word of God: "You shall not put the LORD your God to the test."50 The challenge contained in such tempting of God wounds the respect and trust we owe our Creator and Lord. It always harbors doubt about his love, his providence, and his power.51

2120 Sacrilege consists in profaning or treating unworthily the sacraments and other liturgical actions, as well as persons, things, or places consecrated to God. Sacrilege is a grave sin especially when committed against the Eucharist, for in this sacrament the true Body of Christ is made substantially present for us.52

2121 Simony is defined as the buying or selling of spiritual things.53 To Simon the magician, who wanted to buy the spiritual power he saw at work in the apostles, St. Peter responded: "Your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain God's gift with money!"54 Peter thus held to the words of Jesus: "You received without pay, give without pay."55 It is impossible to appropriate to oneself spiritual goods and behave toward them as their owner or master, for they have their source in God. One can receive them only from him, without payment.

2122 The minister should ask nothing for the administration of the sacraments beyond the offerings defined by the competent authority, always being careful that the needy are not deprived of the help of the sacraments because of their poverty."56 The competent authority determines these "offerings" in accordance with the principle that the Christian people ought to contribute to the support of the Church's ministers. "The laborer deserves his food."57

Atheism

2123 "Many . . . of our contemporaries either do not at all perceive, or explicitly reject, this intimate and vital bond of man to God. Atheism must therefore be regarded as one of the most serious problems of our time."58

2124 The name "atheism" covers many very different phenomena. One common form is the practical materialism which restricts its needs and aspirations to space and time. Atheistic humanism falsely considers man to be "an end to himself, and the sole maker, with supreme control, of his own history."59 Another form of contemporary atheism looks for the liberation of man through economic and social liberation. "It holds that religion, of its very nature, thwarts such emancipation by raising man's hopes in a future life, thus both deceiving him and discouraging him from working for a better form of life on earth."60

2125 Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the virtue of religion.61 The imputability of this offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances. "Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism. To the extent that they are careless about their instruction in the faith, or present its teaching falsely, or even fail in their religious, moral, or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than to reveal the true nature of God and of religion."62

2126 Atheism is often based on a false conception of human autonomy, exaggerated to the point of refusing any dependence on God.63 Yet, "to acknowledge God is in no way to oppose the dignity of man, since such dignity is grounded and brought to perfection in God. . . . "64 "For the Church knows full well that her message is in harmony with the most secret desires of the human heart."65

Agnosticism

2127 Agnosticism assumes a number of forms. In certain cases the agnostic refrains from denying God; instead he postulates the existence of a transcendent being which is incapable of revealing itself, and about which nothing can be said. In other cases, the agnostic makes no judgment about God's existence, declaring it impossible to prove, or even to affirm or deny.

2128 Agnosticism can sometimes include a certain search for God, but it can equally express indifferentism, a flight from the ultimate question of existence, and a sluggish moral conscience. Agnosticism is all too often equivalent to practical atheism.

* IV. "YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF A GRAVEN IMAGE . . .">

2129 The divine injunction included the prohibition of every representation of God by the hand of man. Deuteronomy explains: "Since you saw no form on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure. . . . "66 It is the absolutely transcendent God who revealed himself to Israel. "He is the all," but at the same time "he is greater than all his works."67 He is "the author of beauty."68

2130 Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.69

2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images.

2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

    Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.71

IN BRIEF

2133 "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your strength" (Deut 6:5).

2134 The first commandment summons man to believe in God, to hope in him, and to love him above all else.

2135 "You shall worship the Lord your God" (Mt 4:10). Adoring God, praying to him, offering him the worship that belongs to him, fulfilling the promises and vows made to him are acts of the virtue of religion which fall under obedience to the first commandment.

2136 The duty to offer God authentic worship concerns man both as an individual and as a social being.

2137 "Men of the present day want to profess their religion freely in private and in public" (DH 15).

2138 Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.

2139 Tempting God in words or deeds, sacrilege, and simony are sins of irreligion forbidden by the first commandment.

2140 Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the first commandment.

2141 The veneration of sacred images is based on the mystery of the Incarnation of the Word of God. It is not contrary to the first commandment.

3 Ex 20:2-5; cf. Deut 5:6-9.
4 Mt 4:10.
5 Deut 6:13-14.
6 Cf. Ex 19:16-25; 24:15-18.
7 St. Justin, Dial. cum Tryphone Judaeo 11,1:PG 6,497.
8 Roman Catechism 3,2,4.
9 Rom 1:5; 16:26.
10 Cf. Rom 1:18-32.
11 CIC, can. 751: emphasis added.
12 Cf. Deut 6:4-5.
13 Lk 4:8; Cf. Deut 6:13.
14 Cf. Lk 1:46-49.
15 Lk 18:1.
16 St. Augustine, De civ Dei 10,6:PL 41,283.
17 Ps 51:17.
18 Cf. Am 5:21-25; Isa 1:10-20.
19 Mt 9:13; 12:7; Cf. Hos 6:6.
20 Cf. Heb 9:13-14.
21 CIC, can. 1191 § 1.
22 Cf. Acts 18:18; 21:23-24.
23 Cf. CIC, can. 654.
24 LG 42 § 2.
25 Cf. CIC, cann. 692; 1196-1197.
26 DH 1 § 2.
27 DH 2 § 1.
28 NA 2 § 2.
29 DH 14 § 4.
30 DH 1 § 3.
31 AA 13 § 1.
32 Cf. DH 1.
33 Cf. AA 13; Leo XIII, Immortale Dei 3,17; Pius XI, Quas primas 8,20.
34 DH 2 § 1.
35 DH 2 § 2.
36 DH 6 § 3.
37 Cf. Leo XIII, Libertas praestantissimum 18; Pius XII AAS 1953,799.
38 Cf. DH 2.
39 Cf. Pius VI, Quod aliquantum (1791) 10; Pius IX, Quanta cura 3.
40 DH 7 § 3.
41 Cf. Mt 23:16-22.
42 Ps 115:4-5, 8; cf. Isa 44:9-20; Jer 10:1-16; Dan 14:1-30; Bar 6; Wis 13:1-15:19.
43 Josh 3:10; Ps 42:3; etc.
44 Mt 6:24.
45 Cf. Rev 13-14.
46 Cf. Gal 5:20; Eph 5:5.
47 Origen, Contra Celsum 2,40:PG 11,861.
48 Cf. Deut 18:10; Jer 29:8.
49 Cf. Lk 4:9.
50 Deut 6:16.
51 Cf. 1 Cor 10:9; Ex 17:2-7; Ps 95:9.
52 Cf. CIC, cann. 1367; 1376.
53 Cf. Acts 8:9-24.
54 Acts 8:20.
55 Mt 10:8; cf. already Isa 55:1.
56 CIC, can. 848.
57 Mt 10:10; cf. Lk 10:7; 2 Cor 9:5-18; 1 Tim 5:17-18.
58 GS 19 § 1.
59 GS 20 § 2.
60 GS 20 § 2.
61 Cf. Rom 1:18.
62 GS 19 § 3.
63 Cf. GS 20 § 1.
64 GS 21 § 3.
65 GS 21 § 7.
66 Deut 4:15-16.
67 Sir 43:27-28.
68 Wis 13:3.
69 Cf. Num 21:4-9; Wis 16:5-14; Jn 3:14-15; Ex 25:10-22; 1 Kings 6:23-28; 7:23-26.
70 St. Basil, De Spiritu Sancto 18,45:PG 32,149C; Council of Nicaea II: DS 601; cf. Council of Trent: DS 1821-1825; Vatican Council II: SC 126; LG 67.
71 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II,81,3 ad 3.”

(Daddy Bob) Also, explain why Catholic priests are called "FATHER" when Jesus said not to do that? Also what about the various Catholic titles that the priests use? Didn't Jesus also warn against that?

(Cristoiglesia) From the early Church we find that clergy were addressed as father. There are those with little knowledge of history or hermeneutical discipline such as understanding Scriptures within context, who believe that the Bible prohibits one from calling a priest father. The words they rely on come directly from Christ:

(Mat 23:9 DRB) And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

Keeping the verse in context let us look at the verse preceding this verse:

(Mat 23:8 DRB) But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master: and all you are brethren.

Rabbi means teacher and the Latin word for teacher is doctor so anyone using these terms as well are violating the literal interpretation of the text.

Let us look at the verse after verse 9:

(Mat 23:10 DRB) Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, Christ.

There is no way that the interpretation could be correct if one reads and understands the Matthew passage in context. He is clearly teaching that one should not look to any human authority as our teacher, father, master, doctor or other titles of respect but instead give to God those things that are reserved for Him. Do you also refuse to call people doctor, teacher, professor, mister, or master? All of these are forbidden as well if we are to accept a literal understanding.

Context also requires that we investigate what the other Scriptures say as well as the understanding of these words by those who followed Christ. There are many instances where the writers of the New Testament contradict a literal understanding of not calling a man father, teacher or master. Consider the following verses:

(Act 5:34 DRB) But one in the council rising up, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, respected by all the people, commanded the men to be put forth a little while.

(Col 4:1 DRB) Masters, do to your servants that which is just and equal: knowing that you also have a master in heaven.

(2Ti 1:11 DRB) Wherein I am appointed a preacher and an apostle and teacher of the Gentiles.

Let us examine the statements of St. Stephen to see if he understood Christ to be speaking literally….In is soliloquy (Acts Chapter 7) before the Sanhedrin before his stoning to martyrdom he used the term father in referring to Abraham Isaac and Jacob as fathers and also to his Israelite ancestors as fathers.

St. John the beloved disciple also did not understand Christ to be teaching literally as we can see in the following verses:

(1Jn 2:13 DRB) I write unto you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.

(1Jn 2:14 DRB) I write unto you, babes, because you have known the Father. I write unto you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and you have overcome the wicked one.

(1Jn 2:15 DRB) Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him.

(1Jn 2:16 DRB) For all that is in the world is the concupiscence of the flesh and the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life, which is not of the Father but is of the world.

St. Paul also had a different understanding of Christ’s words than the literalists:

(1Co 4:14 DRB) I write not these things to confound you: but I admonish you as my dearest children.

(1Co 4:15 DRB) For if you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, by the gospel, I have begotten you.

(1Co 4:16 DRB) Wherefore, I beseech you, be ye followers of me as I also am of Christ.

St. Paul was speaking of the fact that he is called to shepherd the flock as are all priests. We not only give birth to the Christian through Baptism but also nourish the faithful with the Holy Eucharist and God’s Word. We care for them and bind their spiritual wounds through the delivery of the Sacraments. It is no wonder that we are called father as we care for our Church family as a father cares for his own family.


(Daddy Bob) How about the old "purgatory and hellfire" scams that make so much money for the Catholics?

(Cristoiglesia) You know, I have heard this accusation before from other Jehovah Witnesses. Like you they do not explain why they make such a statement. Rather than speculate about what you mean, why do you not explain your rather dubious accusation. Why do you call these doctrines scams and how do you perceive they are profitable to the Church?

“Aren't catholic priests paid and yet jesus taught not to do that?”

Priests receive very little in payment and some live in poverty according to their vows. I am not aware of Jesus teaching that clergy should not receive sustenance.

Matthew 10:5-11:1

King James Version (KJV)

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

(Daddy Bob) Maybe you can help me understand these things.

(Cristoiglesia) I pray that I have done as you wished and helped your understanding. God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

06 May, 2013

Response to an accusation of Marian worship



(Dunwald) “Did you know in Hinduism the people use statues of their god as a focus to send their prayers to their god.”

(Cristoiglesia) I am not an expert on Hinduism but I would assume that your claim is possible. Are you a Hindu? You are incorrect about Christians. In Christianity when we see a statue or picture it reminds us of the person it represents. When we see the blessed Mother of God we are reminded of her Son and we strive to have the same devotion to her son as she. So, a statue of the blessed mother would focus us on Jesus who is God and the second person of the Trinity of one God.

(Dunwald) Catholics do the same thing. They use the statue of Mary to focus on and send their prayers to Mary. This is forbidden by the 2nd commandment.

(Cristoiglesia) Actually you are incorrect. A statue of the blessed mother or a picture would remind us that the blessed mother of God always points to her Son for our salvation. The second Commandment in the Decalogue forbids idolatry and not praying for one another. Perhaps you can explain how asking another person to pray for us to God is idolatry or is forbidden in the second Commandment. Do you in your belief system believe that when one asks another to pray for them that it is idolizing them as a God? Christians do not believe that when we pray for another that we are a God or when we ask another to pray for us that they are God. In fact, all the Christians I have known would think that your belief is very strange indeed if that is what you truly believe.

Now, I understand that you may well be unfamiliar with biblical teaching which tells Christians that God’s greatest Commandment is to love one another as we are all of the same vine and if one is ill from sin or in need then we all suffer. We ask others to pray for us and we are always blessed to pray for others and even pray for those we do not know. For instance I prayed for you that your eyes would be opened to the truth of Scriptures and to Christ’s Church. I do not pray for you because I desire for you to think of me as a god but out of love which fulfills, in part, Christ’s greatest Commandment.

So, in conclusion, there is nothing in the second Commandment about idolatry that forbids intercessory prayer.     

(Dunwald) “The 1st commandment forbids having other gods before God. In the "Hail Mary" prayer you Catholics are asking Mary to intercede for you when you ask her to pray for you.”

(Cristoiglesia) I truly am trying to make sense of this statement of yours. What I do not understand is how asking another person to pray for us and become our prayer partner is against the first Commandment. How is this against the first Commandment unless we believe the person we are asking to pray for us and become our prayer partner is a god? I cannot imagine any Christian believing such nonsense. Certainly not Catholic Christians who are forbidden from such belief. In your beliefs do you actually believe that asking another to pray for you or with you that you would believe them to be a God by doing so? Such beliefs would be far from the thoughts of a Christian. We pray individually and ask others to share in our prayers and indeed pray for us but we never imagine that they could be a god as in Christianity there is only one God expressed in the three persons of the Trinity.

(Dunwald) “Only Jesus Christ can intercede for us, not Mary. This is why you Catholics have crossed over the line from honoring Mary to worshiping Mary.

(Cristoiglesia) Again you seem to not understand the teaching of Christ and the Bible. The Bible never forbids intercessory prayer as you suppose nor does the Church. The Bible and the Church teach that anyone can be a prayer partner for another which is what we call intercession. This is the role also of the blessed mother. So, in your commentary, it would be reasonable to assume that you are saying that anyone that prays for another as an intercessor is considered by Catholic Christians to be a God by the person asking for their prayers. Is that what you are trying to allege here? It would seem as if that is your contention. I assure you that we know that if we ask another to pray for us that we know that they are not God but instead one not unlike ourselves, who is also in need of God’s grace. I assure you that we know that a person praying for us is not God.

(Dunwald) “How can you say you are honoring Mary only when you teach that Mary is equal to Jesus Christ? Only Jesus is our mediator, only Jesus can intercede for us.”

(Cristoiglesia) I know the Catechism of the Catholic Church very well and I assure you that there is no Catholic teaching anyway similar to what you claim. If you can find such a teaching in the Catechism please make me aware of it. The blessed mother of God is not “equal” to Jesus in any way. You are correct that Jesus is our only mediator and that is the teaching of the Catholic Church. However anyone can be an intercessor and intercessory prayer is the way that Christians express their love for one another.

(Dunwald) “To teach Mary can do the same things as Jesus is saying Mary is God and is equal to God.”

(Cristoiglesia) Specifically what teaching are you referring to as I know of no such teaching? Asking someone else to pray for us does not equate to us thinking that they are God or equal to God. From where do you get such nonsense.

(Dunwald) “Its the Catholics who are bearing false witness against Mary.”

(Cristoiglesia) Do you have any evidence whatsoever to support this statement? Can you give any specific incidences of this or are you just making idle accusations without evidence.

(Dunwald) “How pissed off do you think Mary will be when you stand before Jesus for spreading lies about,her?”

(Cristoiglesia) Do you have an example of any lies told about the blessed mother of God? I assure you that lies about the blessed mother do not come from Christ’s own Church that the Bible calls the “pillar and foundation of the truth”.

(Dunwald) “Before you complain about the splinter in my eye you really should remove the log in your eye first, and that log being Marian worship.”

(Cristoiglesia) I have been a Catholic Christian now for over a decade and was a Protestant Christian for 50 years prior to that. In all of this time I have never met anyone that worships the blessed mother. The Church teaches that to worship anyone or anything but God is a mortal sin. If any Catholic worshipped the blessed mother or anyone or thing but God they would cease to be Catholic as such a sin would be an act of Latae Excommunicae. You are the one bearing false witness and not I. You criticize Catholics falsely for violating some of the 10 Commandments yet you violate them without any apology egregiously and without repent.  

(Dunwald) “Will worshiping Mary keep you out of Heaven?”

(Cristoiglesia) Will bearing false witness keep one out of heaven? The answer is yes as it is a mortal sin. If it remains an unrepentant sin it will indeed result in the loss of salvation and the beatific vision. Certainly your claim is correct even if it is contradictory to your premise that Catholics violate the 10 Commandments. If that was indeed true Catholics could not be saved as we would be breaking the Commandments unrepentantly. Since we do not do as you claim then we have nothing to worry about. In contrast bearing false witness without repentance will indeed result in the loss of salvation.


(Dunwald) “No, because Salvation is based on Faith and Grace. But you will not receive any rewards for worshiping Mary.

(Cristoiglesia) Salvation is based on a true faith and not the false faith of heretics and non-believers. Christians worship God who is the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in one God. Truly it is by God’s grace that we are saved and our response to that grace. Again, you are bearing false witness when you make the claim that Catholic Christians worship anyone or anything but God in the Trinity. God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

Part II



(Dunwald) ” Salvation is by Faith that Jesus is God and by the grace of God. Its nothing we have done because we were predestined by God to be one of the Chosen few.”

(Cristoiglesia) It is true that salvation comes by God’s grace, however Jesus died on the cross so that all men may be saved by responding to that grace. We are predestined in the fact that we all have the law written and circumcised on our hearts. It is by this law that man can respond to God’s grace which is abundant to all that simply believe in Him. As a result of this law written on the hearts of all men we may respond to His grace and live eternally in Christ.  Anyone that says that man cannot ignore or reject that grace is a liar as God allows each of His children to reject Him or embrace Him having first given all the essential elements of the law to understand that divine grace by intuitively and freely embracing its simple salvific reality. It is never by God’s will that anyone not be saved as God’s grace is offered to all but it is not irresistible as the heretics claim.

(Dunwald)Lies about Mary.

1. Mary was sinless.

Romans 3:10
"None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Romans 5:12
12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Only Jesus Christ was sinless.

Hebrews 4:15
15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

(Cristoiglesia) It is good that you recognize that Jesus is sinless even in his Humanity. He is certainly an exception and contradiction to your misunderstanding of the Scriptures you provided. As a result it is clear that the Scriptures were making a general statement of the condition of man rather than being all inclusive as your eisegesis proclaims. It is obvious that your unjustified prejudice against the blessed mother of God has provoked you to make this error in understanding the Scriptural  teaching on the general state of man and applying it to the blessed mother who was saved from sin by her Son at her conception. The Salvific grace that saved her is the same grace that God gives to us all who cooperate with that grace through our belief in Him.   

(Dunwald) To declare Mary was sinless is making Mary equal to God who is sinless.

(Cristoiglesia) You need to support this statement with some kind of logical explanation. God prepared her with salvific grace at her conception. At her annunciation the angel of God recognized her sinless state calling her full of grace.  No one has ever called her equal to God except those who attack her and try to pretend that she was not the most blessed of all humanity by being chosen before her conception to be the mother of God incarnate.

(Dunwald) I do understand that you Catholics have a hard time understanding what God teaches in the bible, but if you would just ask God to give you the Indwelling of the holy Spirit you too can understand the Bible a lot better than you are doing now.

(Cristoiglesia) Rather than pointing at Catholics and their 2000 years of biblical scholarship and ignoring the fact that all the biblical writers of the New Testament were Catholic Christians perhaps you should study and make you approved to make such claims.  History records that it was entirely Catholics who canonized the Christian Bible under the authority of Christ given to His Church. It is the
Church and its teaching that is declared in the Bible as the truth and not your private interpretation and doctrines of men.

It is interesting and rather ironic that you claim to know my heart when you claim godly qualities usurped by the lack of sin by the blessed mother and yet put yourself as one who knows the hearts of others. You are doing what you claim erroneously that Catholics do with the teaching on the blessed mother of God. Such arrogance suggests that perhaps it may be you who lacks that grace given by God to the Church at Pentecost individually and corporeally. Certainly as a Christian outside the Church you are blessed with some discernment but certainly not the fullness of truth and grace that is within Christ’s own Church and not the man-made counterfeit sects of Protestantism who have some measure of truth with great error.

(Dunwald) “The parable of the Ten Virgins is a very good example of the Catholic Church today.

Matthew 25:1-12
1“Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

6“And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11“Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

The oil in the Lamps is the Holy Spirit which i believe most Catholics do not have today.”

(Cristoiglesia) It is rather odd that you would relate this to the Catholic Church and those of us who are faithful and obedient to the Church founded by Jesus and the disciples of our Lord. It is clear in Scriptures that it is this Church that was given the Holy Spirit at Pentecost which for 2000 years has protected the Church and individuals who are in Christ from error.
It would seem to a reasonable and knowledgeable person that this parable is more closely related to Protestants who left the Church to found their own sects based on their doctrines of men. The Bible speaks of such people as the Protestants as those who cannot endure sound doctrine. As a result they have chosen to reject Christ’s Church which is the “pillar and foundation of the truth” and follow false teachers who satisfy their itching ears. If you read the Bible without prejudice and have knowledge of history you would know that it is the Church which is with this charism given by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

(Dunwald)”There are two types of Christians. Those who have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and truly follow God. And those who do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and really do not follow God.

(Cristoiglesia) I agree! However would you not agree that it is more reasonable to assume that the obedient to God’s will, that we have unity in His Church, be a clear indication of an indwelling of the Holy Spirit? How would the rejection of His will, by being a member of the confusion of Protestantism, be a sign of this indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Surely the Holy Spirit draws one to His Church rather than the man-made counterfeits of Protestantism.

(Dunwald) ”Also in Matthew 7 God clearly says not everybody who claims to follow Him are a Christian.

Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Just because you think you are a Christian does not mean you are a True Christian.”

(Cristoiglesia) I agree again! But how can one claim to truly follow Him and reject the Church that He built on the firm foundation of Him as the cornerstone and high priest, St Peter and his successors as the prime ministers and the disciples and their successors as the foundation stones.  This Church remains today and endures as Jesus promised as the “pillar and foundation of the truth” and not the sects of the Protestants who represent the confusion in their more than 30,000 different versions representing confusion and disunity. Jesus prayed for unity but Protestants ignore His prayer to the Father that we be one in His Church.

(Dunwald) “This i believe is the case with most Catholics today. They say they follow Jesus but their Hearts are not with Jesus. They have removed Jesus and have put Mary first in their lives.

(Cristoiglesia) We honor the blessed mother because the Bible says that we should recognize that she was uniquely blessed of all humanity. Jesus gave His mother to the Church and the Church was given to her from the cross by her Son. The ministry of the blessed mother is and has always been to point to her Son as the source for all salvation and we as followers of Christ desire to have this same devotion that she exemplifies.

(Dunwald) “You may say Catholics do not worship Mary, but even you cannot discern if they do or do not because i total believe you do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 5:8
Walk as children of light 9(for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is in the Truth. To teach lies means you do not have the Holy Spirit in You. This is why you are having such a hard time understanding what God says in the Bible.”

(Cristoiglesia) Now you are being ridiculous. The Church clearly and unambiguously teaches that Catholics are forbidden to worship anyone or anything but God. All Catholics know that to worship anyone or anything but God is to cease to be Catholic. Prove it to yourself as all Catholic teaching is recorded in the Catechism. Find any teaching that even suggests what you proclaim in your bearing of false witness against Christ’s own Church. Perhaps you should study what the Bible says about those who insist on bearing false witness against others. The Decalogue says that what you are doing is a mortal sin and as a result will surely murder your soul to Christ unless you repent. You are condemning yourself by your actions. You are also appearing as a fool by telling a Catholic Christian that we worship anyone but God as we certainly do not.

(Dunwald) “Message: 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8,9

if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:9-13

9For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ 1 Thessalonians 5:9”

(Cristoiglesia) Agreed

(Dunwald)” Again you are lying, salvation is received by Faith and Grace and we receive our Salvation through Jesus Christ not through the Catholic Church like you teach.”

(Cristoiglesia) I have never said that salvation is not by faith grace. You are the one bearing false witness. We do receive salvific grace through the Church which is ordained by Christ to serve His Sacraments to the faithful. Jesus said that if we eat His Body and drink His Blood we will have eternal life and abide in Him forever. That is one of the Commandments of our Lord that most Protestants ignore. It is the Sacraments and in particular the Holy Eucharist that gives us the continuing grace to abide in Him.  Please read John 6 for confirmation. Pay particular attention to Jesus’ colloquy at Capernaum. His teaching is very clear. We must eat His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity to be saved as Christians.

(Dunwald) “Can it be you are having problems understanding what God says in the Scriptures?”

(Cristoiglesia) No, not at all.

(Dunwald) “Listen to the truth from the Holy Spirit instead of the lies from the Catholic Church.”

(Cristoiglesia) The Bible says of the Church that it is the “pillar and foundation of the truth”. But you say that the Bible lies. I believe the Bible and not you or your man-made sect. How can the Church lie and one believe the Bible to be true? You have to accept all the truth or none of it. Jesus said that the Church will endure for all times and will never fall into apostasy. You say it has. I believe Jesus and not you.

(Dunwald) “Paul had a lot to say about people like you.

17I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. 18For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. Romans 16:17-18

We are to avoid people like you who serve your own appetites and do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ.

13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15”

(Cristoiglesia) The Church stands for unity and so do I. Jesus prayed for unity the night before His crucifixion in His Church. Protestants represent division and confusion as the more than 30,000 different sects attest and I am not even counting all the non-denominational heretics. The Bible says to avoid those who cause divisions and not join them against Christ’s Church as you have done in your man-made counterfeit sect. the works of Protestantism is division and confusion within the Body of Christ. Only Christ’s own Church represents unity of the faithful.  Clearly St. Paul is speaking of the Protestants in this prophetic description and not the Church that he was a part.

(Dunwald) “You really need to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior before its too late.”

(Cristoiglesia) I did that over 60 years ago and have served Him all my life. God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph