04 September, 2009

Discussion with "Shelly" about her criticisms of the Church

(Shelly)I think you have things twisted in your own mind.

(Cristoiglesia) Let us examine your accusations and see who has things twisted in their own mind.

(Shelly) You deny scriptures outright when they contradict your own belief system.

(Cristoiglesia) This is a ridiculous accusation. Ask yourself this, why would Catholic Christians write the New Testament and then deny the very Scriptures that describe our faith and are about our Church. We do the opposite of what you charge and teach the entirety of Scriptures systematically over a three year period. Most so called Christian churches never teach all of Scriptures but only those things that they twist to support their man made doctrines and heresies. One of the foremost reasons I converted to Catholic Christianity is because it’s teaching, beliefs and practice is without contradiction with Scriptures. Your claim is an empty accusation without any evidence.

(Shelly) You've turned your back on the true doctrine Faith alone in Jesus Christ saves you.. and relied on the catholic doctrine of faith and works well there will be a day when Jesus is coming back and their will be a reckoning.

(Cristoiglesia) Do your realize that he only time that faith alone is mentioned in Scriptures is when it is condemned by St. James:

Jas 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?

So, who is twisting things and believing in contradiction. You see, the Catholic Church has not turned their back on the man made (Martin Luther) heresy of Sola Fide but that it is not a biblical teaching or a teaching of the Church since the beginning. It is instead wholly a man made doctrine which is unsupportable with the entirety of Scriptures without creating contradiction like the one I just gave you. Martin Luther even wanted to remove the book of James because it contradicted his doctrine of Sola Fide.

The Catholic Church teaches the biblical alternative to Luther’s doctrine which is we are saved by God’s grace through faith. We believe that through this grace that the Holy Spirit convicts our souls to do God’s work and to be in His will by following His commandments. This is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says about justification which is written elsewhere in the blog in an answer to another critic of the Church’s teaching on justification:


It is good to know exactly what the Church teaches instead of what those critical of the Church lie about our teaching and to believe it as truth.
When work is warned against in Scriptures it is the work of the law described in the Old Testament and were the Levitical laws given by Moses as part of the Old Covenant. Christians are not under this law as the law was fulfilled by Christ:

Luk 24:44 And he said to them: These are the words which I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled which are written in the law of Moses and in the prophets and in the psalms, concerning me.

You are correct that there will be a reckoning where every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. The Bible prophesies about this day and revealed to us who those people are who will be condemned and they are those who are described as follows which parallels the proto-Protestants in John 6 who left Jesus never to follow Him again because of His hard teaching and the Protestants and Restorationist today in the following:

2Ti 4:3 For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears:

These are the people who have left the sound doctrine and fullness of truth which is promised by Christ ton His Church , the Catholic Church. Here is what He will say to them at their judgment:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

(Shelly)Jesus Had brothers you say they were his cousins,

(Cristoiglesia) The reason we say this is because we are Christians and we know that the Ark of the Covenant is Holy ground and that the blessed mother of God is the Ark of the New Covenant which no man can defile and live. Satan would love for man to believe otherwise as it would mean that Jesus was just a pretender as the Messiah

This is from elsewhere in my blog about the virginity of the blessed mother of God:


The Bible state clearly, lest there be any doubt, that the birth of Jesus was a birth to a virgin stating that until His birth there was no doubt of her virginity. There is no Scriptural, Patristic or historical evidence of Jesus having any siblings or the blessed virgin having any children but Jesus. To say she was not forever virgin is speculative, theologically impossible and unsupportable in any way. Where are the descendants of Jesus today? Surely they would be honored by the Church and be known. There are none and never were.

(Shelly) Mary is NOt co-redemptrix to christ nor did she stay a virgin after Jesus birth,

(Cristoiglesia) No she is not co-redemptrix in that she was not the redemptive sacrifice. But she participated in man’s redemption by saying yes to God to make redemption possible. Here is the correct teaching of the Church:

Summary of Correct Doctrine

Jesus Christ is our Redeemer, Mediator, Advocate. Christ is assisted by the Virgin Mary in her triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix. The following 13 points are an important part of a correct understanding of this doctrine.

1. Mary's triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix is a reflection of the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity.

2. All three aspects of this one role are substantially different from, and wholly subordinate to, Christ's triune role as Redeemer, Mediator, Advocate.

3. Mary's role is different from, and subordinate to, Christ's role because, in God's plan for Creation, the role given to women is different from, and subordinate to, the role given to men.

4. The "co-" prefix in co-Redemptrix refers to Mary's cooperation with us; it does not mean that Mary is co-Redeemer, not even with and under Christ. (The "co-" prefix should not be capitalized, since it refers to our mere human efforts towards our salvation; the "R" in co-Redemptrix should be capitalized since it refers to Divine efforts towards our salvation.)

5. Mary is not a co-Redeemer and is not able to save anyone, not even with and under Christ. Christ alone redeems; Mary merely immerses herself in all that Christ does toward our redemption. Her role is not co-redemptive.

6. Mary is Mediatrix of Grace, but not of all graces. She is not Mediatrix of the graces that flows from Christ's Divine nature to His human nature; there is no mediation within the hypostatic union of the Divine and human natures of Christ. She is not the Mediatrix of the graces that she herself receives from Christ; in that case, she is the recipient, not the Mediatrix. In all other cases, Mary is the Mediatrix of Grace.

7. Mary is also Mediatrix of Divine Providence and of mercy and of all that God does within Creation, except with respect to Christ and herself.

8. Mary is Advocatrix. The term "Advocate," when applied to the Virgin Mary, is theologically deficient because it lacks the feminine form, which would distinguish Mary's different and subordinate role from Christ's role as Advocate. Use of the Latin form of the word allows a clear theological definition to be attached to the term, unfettered by the various connotations which the word "advocate" has when translated into various languages.

9. The expression "Advocate of the People of God" can only be used to refer to Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit. The Virgin Mary has no role of advocacy herself; instead, her role as Advocatrix is to immerse herself in Christ's role as our Advocate. Mary is not "Advocate of the People of God," but rather she is a humble assistant to Christ, the Advocate of the People of God.

10. Mary does not stand before God as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix. In truth, only Christ stands before God to redeem, mediate, and advocate. The Virgin Mary humbly kneels before Christ, in worship of Him, as she assists Christ fully in His work of redemption, mediation, advocacy.

11. Mary's role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix is not properly described as a role "with and under" Christ. The term "with and under" does indicate that her role is subordinate, but it also improperly describes that role as if it were a separate role. In truth, Mary completely immerses herself in all that Christ does for our salvation. She has no role of redemption, mediation, or advocacy of her own; all her acts toward our salvation occur in Christ, not "with and under" Christ.

12. Mary is truly co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix. But this true doctrine is neither the fifth Marian dogma, nor is it the final Marian dogma. The claim that this doctrine is "the fifth and final Marian dogma" is a serious theological error which contradicts the teaching of the Church. The further claim that the declaration of this dogma is necessary to usher in a time of peace, or even the last days, is a false claim.

13. Theological works about Mary's triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix should omit any and all references to various false private revelations, including those of Ida Peerdeman at Amsterdam and others. A number of false private revelations have preyed upon the faithful by using this doctrine, or their own distorted version of it, as bait to drag unsuspecting souls into a trap of false teachings and false worship. Any teachings or documents on this topic should either omit all mention of such private revelations, or should clearly condemn them and the false doctrines which they promote. (Ronald L. Conte, Jr.)

(Shelly) You should only call God father and not reverend a man in such a way that makes him think he's holy,

(Cristoiglesia) This is from elsewhere in my blog where this question is answered using proper hermeneutical understanding and without prejudice:


(Shelly) i could go on and on but as you see I know all about the catholic church and i certainly know it's not the true church as you like to think. I pray for your soul.

(Cristoiglesia) As you can see by now what you think you know about the Catholic Church is false. Seeing now that what you thought you knew about the Church is false can you be so confident saying that it is not the true Church based on the evidence supporting such a conclusion. Jesus prayed His last prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane that we all be one in His Church as He and the Father are one yet you follow a man made sect with man made doctrines, heresy and prejudice. Your sect is in protest of what Jesus and the disciples have founded which is promised to be enduring which the 2000 year history of the Church attests and no other can support the same claim. It is this Church that Scriptures say is the “pillar and foundation of the truth”. It is the Church that Jesus promised that the gates of hell would never prevail against and the Church that He said He would be with until the end of the age. He provided an enduring leadership for the enduring Church that remains today in an unbroken line called apostolic succession through which all authority of teaching was given by Christ. I will pray for your rebellious soul. May the Lord have mercy on you. God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

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