05 November, 2009

Discussion with "Jeanmarie" about her false teaching about the Church

(Jeanmarie) I attended the RCC as a child. Christ brought me back to him as an adult, then I went on a mission reading the bible and searching for him.

(Cristoiglesia) Obviously you were not properly catechized or the false teachers that preyed on your lack of knowledge would not have been able to turn you from Christ’s Church. The Bible and especially the New Testament are about the Church so if you used the Bible to search for God it is the Churches testimony of the Church that you read. I am sure that the people you studied with twisted the Scriptures to besmirch the Church that wrote them as is typical of the ravaging wolves who prey on Christ’s faithful.

(Jeanmarie) I was shocked when I read so many passages in the bible that contradicted the RCC teachings.

(Cristoiglesia) Well, I have been reading and studying the Bible for more than 50 years and was trained at Protestant seminaries and when I tried to find Scriptures that contradicted Catholic teaching I could not find any. As a former anti-Catholic this was very disturbing. Every time I tried to support my Protestant differences with Catholic teaching I found out they were correct and I was wrong. Being stubborn and prideful it took me almost 50 years to realize that if I was to teach the fullness of truth and not be a false teacher that I must become Catholic. This was a very difficult realization for me knowing that I was formerly one of those ravaging wolves the Bible speaks of so condemningly. May the Lord have mercy on me for attacking His Church.

(Jeanmarie)I believe there are many kind people who attend the RCC and God will judge their heart and judge them by the gospel of Jesus Christ.

(Cristoiglesia) Yes, He will judge us all but those that bear false witness against His Church will be judged more harshly for this unrepentant sin. I pray for those like you daily who are so deceived by the teaching of the world and embrace the doctrines of men in counterfeit churches before the teaching of Jesus and the disciples through His Church.

(Jeanmarie)Yet I know the Vatican and it's teachings are anti-christ.

So then, you believe Jesus to be a liar and the Bible to be false teaching? Jesus said that His Church is the enduring Church that will NEVER fall into apostasy but instead prevail until the Parousia as the “pillar and foundation of the truth”. You are saying that the gates of hell have indeed prevailed and His Church has not endured and the truth He promised has been lost. Your opinion is pure blasphemy and calls Jesus, at best, an incompetent and at worst a liar in founding His Church which you seem to believe is built upon sand instead of the foundation of stone with Himself as the cornerstone. Furthermore, if one cannot trust His Church with the truth, why would one think that man’s creations like the more than 30,000 different Protestant sects would have veracity greater than what Jesus Himself founded. Such thinking is the epitome of pride and arrogance and is surely a collection of doctrines of devils. Shame on you for attacking Christ’s veracity in this way.

(Jeanmarie) I attend a non-denom church-no we don't speak in tongues or have snakes we preach from the bible and do not hold the traditions of man above scripture.

(Cristoiglesia) I do not know why you would have a problem with speaking in tongues or any of the other gifts of the Spirit. All believers are endowed by the Holy Spirit with gifts that build up the Church in faith. I agree with you on the snakes. However, I find your next statement in opposition to the rest of your statements. You say that you do not holed the traditions of men above Scriptures but yet you reject Christ’s Church calling it the antichrist while attending a man-made church in Protest of what Jesus founded and the disciples. Furthermore, you follow false teachers teaching entirely doctrines of men. Clearly Scriptures to you are only followed when they agree with your doctrines of men and ignore the Scriptures that contradict your teaching as ALL Protestant teaching contains heresy mixed with what limited truth they retain from the teaching of Christ’s Church. So, your statement contradicts your actions, do they not?

(Jeanmarie) In fact in my church there's a former priest and nun who sat down, read the new test and left the RCC-their words.

(Cristoiglesia) Yeah, I know the non-existent Sister that is created by fundamentalist bigots as a compilation of their bigotry and ignorance of Church teaching called Mary Ann Collins. She does not now or ever existed. Yes, there are a couple of charlatan ex priests who go around making a fortune supporting bigotry and false beliefs about Catholics. One of them is promoted by the evil writer of anti-Catholic comic books called Jack Chick and his name is Alberto Rivera. They are lying to become rich. God will deal with their sinfulness.

(Jeanmarie) Now tell me, what statements did I say that is not the truth in my post about the bible and RCC teachings considering scripture is for teaching and reproof.
My Christian church give honor to Jesus the christ not to a man named Peter. He was an apostle not the head of my church.

(Cristoiglesia) Well, we worship God in the Trinity and no one or anything else. So this is your first false accusation about the Church. Then you follow that up with your second false statement which alleges that contrary to Scriptures that He is not the leader even though Jesus clearly gives him this authority and no one else saying the following: “ thou art Peter, upon this rock I will build my Church” He then went on to give St. Peter the keys to the Church making him His prime minister on earth. (See Isaiah 22:20-22)

(Jeanmarie) The RCC does so many thing that are against the bible this page isn't long enough to site them all:
1-call priest father-Jesus said regarding spiritual leaders: "Call NO man father but your heavenly father"

(Cristoiglesia) From the early Church we find that clergy were addressed as father. There are those with little knowledge of history or hermeneutical discipline such as understanding Scriptures within context, who believe that the Bible prohibits one from calling a priest father. The words they rely on come directly from Christ:

(Mat 23:9 DRB) And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

Keeping the verse in context let us look at the verse preceding this verse:

(Mat 23:8 DRB) But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master: and all you are brethren.

Rabbi means teacher and the Latin word for teacher is doctor so anyone using these terms as well are violating the literal interpretation of the text.

Let us look at the verse after verse 9:

(Mat 23:10 DRB) Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, Christ.

There is no way that the interpretation could be correct if one reads and understands the Matthew passage in context. He is clearly teaching that one should not look to any human authority as our teacher, father, master, doctor or other titles of respect but instead give to God those things that are reserved for Him. Do you also refuse to call people doctor, teacher, professor, mister, or master? All of these are forbidden as well if we are to accept a literal understanding.

Context also requires that we investigate what the other Scriptures say as well as the understanding of these words by those who followed Christ. There are many instances where the writers of the New Testament contradict a literal understanding of not calling a man father, teacher or master. Consider the following verses:

(Act 5:34 DRB) But one in the council rising up, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, respected by all the people, commanded the men to be put forth a little while.

(Col 4:1 DRB) Masters, do to your servants that which is just and equal: knowing that you also have a master in heaven.

(2Ti 1:11 DRB) Wherein I am appointed a preacher and an apostle and teacher of the Gentiles.

Let us examine the statements of St. Stephen to see if he understood Christ to be speaking literally….In is soliloquy (Acts Chapter 7) before the Sanhedrin before his stoning to martyrdom he used the term father in referring to Abraham Isaac and Jacob as fathers and also to his Israelite ancestors as fathers.

St. John the beloved disciple also did not understand Christ to be teaching literally as we can see in the following verses:

(1Jn 2:13 DRB) I write unto you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.

(1Jn 2:14 DRB) I write unto you, babes, because you have known the Father. I write unto you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and you have overcome the wicked one.

(1Jn 2:15 DRB) Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him.

(1Jn 2:16 DRB) For all that is in the world is the concupiscence of the flesh and the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life, which is not of the Father but is of the world.

St. Paul also had a different understanding of Christ’s words than the literalists:

(1Co 4:14 DRB) I write not these things to confound you: but I admonish you as my dearest children.

(1Co 4:15 DRB) For if you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, by the gospel, I have begotten you.

(1Co 4:16 DRB) Wherefore, I beseech you, be ye followers of me as I also am of Christ.

St. Paul was speaking of the fact that he is called to shepherd the flock as are all priests. We not only give birth to the Christian through Baptism but also nourish the faithful with the Holy Eucharist and God’s Word. We care for them and bind their spiritual wounds through the delivery of the Sacraments. It is no wonder that we are called father as we care for our Church family as a father cares for his own family.

(Jeanmarie) 2-Pray and honor mary as a mediator to God, "We have but one mediator to God, Jesus who is the christ is our ONLY mediator"

(Cristoiglesia) The Church does not teach that the blessed mother of God is a mediator between us and God but instead that Jesus is the sole mediator. Here is what one of the first Catholic Christian wrote as recorded in Scriptures:
1 Timothy 2:5 (King James Version)

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

The blessed mother of God would never usurp Her sons role as mediator but instead is an intercessor and a prayer partner for all of the faithful that desire her prayers for them to Her son. This is a false attack on the Church and on the mother of God.

(Jeanmarie) 3- Tell priests not to marry. And Elder, priest, bishop were all called "overseers" in the bible which says, "the overseer shall be above reproach, husband to one wife with children, how can one oversee a church if one cannot handle their children"

There is no where in the Scriptures that it says not to tell clergy to marry. What it does say is not to forbid marriage. In fact, both St. Paul and Jesus recommend celibacy for clergy. Both of them gave testimony by their actions of being celibate. Neither does this say that they must marry but if they are married that they should be men of good moral character. So the Church teaches nothing against the teaching of Scriptures by allowing clergy to swear a vow of celibacy and emulate Jesus and St. Paul.

(Jeanmarie) 4-Purgatory-"man is appointed once to die, then comes judgment" Jesus told the man on the cross who was a thief, "today you will be with my in paradise."

(Cristoiglesia) The verse you quote against the doctrine of purgatory shows theological ignorance more than being evidence against the doctrine of purgatory. Jesus gave Him complete absolution by His statement to the thief. Jesus knew his heart and that his soul was cleansed of all sin allowing His presence in heaven. If he needed further purgation to enter heaven this would have been done outside of time and would be done instantaneously in the eternal presence as all are in who dwell in the heavenly realm.

(Jeanmarie) Shame on the roman cath church

(Cristoiglesia) The shame is on you for bearing false witness against Christ’s Church by fabricating your straw man, calling it Catholic and then condemning the teaching of your false caricature of the Catholic Church. Please for your own soul; refrain from false teaching against Christ’s Church. God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

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