(Rose S) Thank you for responding back. I didn't think you would. Please understand that i'm not trying to be a jerk I felt that I was saying truth. I really don't know how or where I learned that. my family isn't religious. Well, they believe in God but we never went to church or prayed or anything. We never even talked about God. I went to church with my boyfriend's parents once in a while when I was younger. I didn't learn from any kind church or anything. I guess it was just something over time that was put together combining experience and witnessing events and reading the bible. I know that Catholics worship Mother Mary. I have heard my aunt, who was catholic when she was younger, talking about saying hail mary. I took that as praying to mary which is agains the bible because of John 14:6.
(Cristoiglesia) I understand, as I said to you before my purpose is just to inform you so that you will not continue to bear false witness against the Church. I can understand when one cobbles together impressions from others actions and comments and reading the Bible without any training and the influence of sound teachers that they can come to incorrect conclusions as you have about the teaching and practices of Christ’s Church.
First of all, Catholic Christians do not worship the blessed mother of God. Catholic Christians are forbidden to worship anyone or anything but God. We do not pray to her either. You may see the word pray in reference to her but the Blessed mother we are making a request which is the archaic meaning of the word pray in English which is synonymous with “ask”. This explains it from elsewhere in my blog:
First of all it is disingenuous to state that the practice of praying for each other has no biblical foundation, we are instructed in Scripture to have a prayer life for others as it is part of God’s commandment to love one another.
(2Co 5:8 DRB) But we are confident and have a good will to be absent rather from the body and to be present with the Lord.
The Catholic Church does not teach that it is absolutely necessary for one to ask for the intercession of saints for salvation. The Church does teach that prayer to God is necessary for salvation for all believers. For a Catholic it would be wrong to ignore the liturgical worship offered to God at feast days for the saints and the prayers asking for their intercession.
The Communion of Saints is a dogma of the ancient Church and is recorded in the apostles Creed. It simply states that the faithful because of their relationship with Christ are alive even after the death of their flesh and worship with us. To us the Church is made up of the Church militant who represents all those believers living out their hope in the flesh.
(Phi 2:12 DRB) Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.
(Phi 2:13 DRB) For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will.
It consists of the Church Suffering who are those who are temporarily in need of further purgation from sin so that they may enjoy the presence of God.
(2Ma 12:46 DRB) It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
Lastly, the Communion of the Saints consists of those who have won the race:
(Phi 3:14 DRB) I press towards the mark, to the prize of the supernal vocation of God in Christ Jesus.
Their immortal souls are in heaven in God’s presence:
(Rev 5:8 DRB) And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
The universal stream connecting all of God’s creation is His love, which we take on in our baptism into our journey towards sanctification. This is not an emotional but a desire placed in us by the Spirit of God that endures as a desire for those other than ourselves and this love extends even to our enemies. This is truly a love that comes only from God and is a foreign concept and nonsense to those who have not received God’s salvific grace. This desire within our souls does not end with the death of our flesh but continues into eternity where the saints through their intercession in prayer encourage us in our race and assist us to endure unto our union with God.
I think that some people of faith, who do not understand the Communion of Saints, somehow believe that asking saints to pray for us is detracting from our love or our trust in God. In truth it is impossible, if we truly love as God commands and has given us the grace to understand, not to pray to those whom we love and in turn we expect them to return that same love to us by praying for us and presenting our prayers to God.
You also misunderstand the Rosary prayer that is said by many Catholics. It seems that you think for some reason that it is an exaltation of the blessed mother. It is not except to acknowledge her blessing to be chosen as the mother of God incarnate. The purpose of the prayer is to do what the blessed mother always does and that is to point to her son for our devotion. Here are the twenty mysteries of the Rosary that we contemplate on while saying the prayer:
THE JOYFUL MYSTERIES
The Annunciation
The Visitation
The Birth of our Lord, Jesus
The Presentation of Jesus in the Temple
The Finding of Jesus in the Temple
THE LUMINOUS MYSTERIES
The Baptism of our Lord
The Wedding Feast at Cana
The Proclamation of the Kingdom of God
The Transfiguration
The Institution of the Eucharist
THE SORROWFUL MYSTERIES
The Agony in the Garden
The Scourging at the Pillar
The Crowning of Thorns
The Carrying of the Cross
The Crucifixion
THE GLORIOUS MYSTERIES
The Resurrection
The Ascension
The Descent of the Holy Spirit
The Assumption
The Crowning of our Blessed Mother as Queen of Heaven
Now, you use the following verse to support your beliefs:
John 14:6 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
No Catholic believes or is taught anything different from what St. John taught. We teach that Jesus is the sole mediator between the Father and man. The blessed mother is not a mediator in this sense but instead she is an intercessor as anyone is who prays for another. Prayer for each other as I have already shown you is an expression of love for one another.
(Rose S) I also know that catholics have confession. I know that because my neice (from marriage) was talking about how she used to have to go to confession. We are not supposed to confess to man anything. We are supposed to pray to Jesus. Going back to John 14:6.
(Cristoiglesia) Christ instituted the sacraments purposefully. The sacrament called reconciliation or penance is what we call our actions when we go to confession. Going to confession and confessing to a priest is the normative way of reconciling oneself back into God's family when we have committed a mortal sin. It is the biblical way corresponding to Jesus' teaching as recorded by the apostle John in John 20: 22-23. What we learn from John is the authority given to the priests is not only to forgive sins but also to retain sins. Jesus commanded the authority to be used. It is the duty given by Jesus for the priest to measure the contrition of the penitent and act accordingly.
However, one must repent and pray sincerely to God as an act of contrition before one enters the confessional. The priest represents Jesus by acting in persona Christi and for the entire family of God represented by the Church militant who is harmed by the sin of another. No sin is private but all sin affects others. Jesus described this relationship as a vine with Him as the vine and we as the branches (John 15:5). If one member of the branch is sick then all
the branches are affected and suffer as a result. Because of our familial relationship with each other Jesus created a means of confession so that all those affected in His family are represented by the priest as is God. The acts of sin and forgiveness are not private matters.
The priest here does not replace Christ but instead acts in persona Christi in providing the Sacrament and in turn God’s grace that it confers. Certainly Christ is only giving this authority based on His own authority. We do not forgive sins instead of Christ but with Christ.
(Rose S) I also know that the priests are called father. Which God says specifically not to call anybody on earth father. Only he is to be called father.
(Cristoiglesia) From the early Church we find that clergy were addressed as father. There are those with little knowledge of history or hermeneutical discipline such as understanding Scriptures within context, who believe that the Bible prohibits one from calling a priest father. The words they rely on come directly from Christ:
(Mat 23:9 DRB) And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.
Keeping the verse in context let us look at the verse preceding this verse:
(Mat 23:8 DRB) But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master: and all you are brethren.
Rabbi means teacher and the Latin word for teacher is doctor so anyone using these terms as well are violating the literal interpretation of the text.
Let us look at the verse after verse 9:
(Mat 23:10 DRB) Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, Christ.
There is no way that the interpretation could be correct if one reads and understands the Matthew passage in context. He is clearly teaching that one should not look to any human authority as our teacher, father, master, doctor or other titles of respect but instead give to God those things that are reserved for Him. Do you also refuse to call people doctor, teacher, professor, mister, or master? All of these are forbidden as well if we are to accept a literal understanding.
Context also requires that we investigate what the other Scriptures say as well as the understanding of these words by those who followed Christ. There are many instances where the writers of the New Testament contradict a literal understanding of not calling a man father, teacher or master. Consider the following verses:
(Act 5:34 DRB) But one in the council rising up, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, respected by all the people, commanded the men to be put forth a little while.
(Col 4:1 DRB) Masters, do to your servants that which is just and equal: knowing that you also have a master in heaven.
(2Ti 1:11 DRB) Wherein I am appointed a preacher and an apostle and teacher of the Gentiles.
Let us examine the statements of St. Stephen to see if he understood Christ to be speaking literally….In is soliloquy (Acts Chapter 7) before the Sanhedrin before his stoning to martyrdom he used the term father in referring to Abraham Isaac and Jacob as fathers and also to his Israelite ancestors as fathers.
St. John the beloved disciple also did not understand Christ to be teaching literally as we can see in the following verses:
(1Jn 2:13 DRB) I write unto you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.
(1Jn 2:14 DRB) I write unto you, babes, because you have known the Father. I write unto you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and you have overcome the wicked one.
(1Jn 2:15 DRB) Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him.
(1Jn 2:16 DRB) For all that is in the world is the concupiscence of the flesh and the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life, which is not of the Father but is of the world.
St. Paul also had a different understanding of Christ’s words than the literalists:
(1Co 4:14 DRB) I write not these things to confound you: but I admonish you as my dearest children.
(1Co 4:15 DRB) For if you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, by the gospel, I have begotten you.
(1Co 4:16 DRB) Wherefore, I beseech you, be ye followers of me as I also am of Christ.
St. Paul was speaking of the fact that he is called to shepherd the flock as are all priests. We not only give birth to the Christian through Baptism but also nourish the faithful with the Holy Eucharist and God’s Word. We care for them and bind their spiritual wounds through the delivery of the Sacraments. It is no wonder that we are called father as we care for our Church family as a father cares for his own family.
(Rose S) I've seen on something that the catholics took out the second commandment (idolatry) and bascially moved them all up and split the last commandment into two. We aren't to change anything that God gave us. Revelation 22:18-19. Thank you. I am excited to see what you have to say. God bless.
No, we did not take out any of the commandments.
Here is Exodus 20 from the Protestant KJV:
Exodus 20
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deuteronomy 5
7Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
8Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
9Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
10And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
11Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
12Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
13Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
14But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
15And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
16Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
17Thou shalt not kill.
18Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
19Neither shalt thou steal.
20Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
21Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
The following is from the Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible:
Exodus 20
3Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.
5Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me:
6And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain.
8Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works.
10But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates.
11For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it.
12Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house: neither shalt thou desire his wife, nor his servant, nor his handmaid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is his.
18And all the people saw the voices and the flames, and the sound of the trumpet, and the mount smoking: and being terrified and struck with fear, they stood afar off,
19Saying to Moses: Speak thou to us, and we will hear: let not the Lord speak to us, lest we die.
20And Moses said to the people: Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that the dread of him might be in you, and you should not sin.
21And the people stood afar off. But Moses went to the dark cloud wherein God was.
22And the Lord said to Moses: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: You have seen that I have spoken to you from heaven.
23You shall not make gods of silver, nor shall you make to yourselves gods of gold.
24You shall make an altar of earth unto me, and you shall offer upon it your holocausts and peace offerings, your sheep and oxen, in every place where the memory of my name shall be: I will come to thee, and will bless thee.
25And if thou make an altar of stone unto me, thou shalt not build it of hewn stones: for if thou lift up a tool upon it, it shall be defiled.
26Thou shalt not go up by steps unto my altar, lest thy nakedness be discovered.
Deuteronomy 5
7Thou shalt not have strange gods in my sight.
8Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any things, that are in heaven above, or that are in the earth beneath, or that abide in the waters under the earth.
9Thou shalt not adore them, and thou shalt not serve them. For I am the Lord thy God, a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the third and fourth generation, to them that hate me,
10And shewing mercy unto many thousands, to them that love me, and keep my commandments.
11Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for he shall not be unpunished that taketh his name upon a vain thing.
12Observe the day of the sabbath, to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee.
13Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works.
14The seventh is the day of the sabbath, that is, the rest of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not do any work therein, thou nor thy son nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant nor thy maidservant, nor thy ox, nor thy ass, nor any of thy beasts, nor the stranger that is within thy gates: that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest, even as thyself.
15Remember that thou also didst serve in Egypt, and the Lord thy God brought thee out from thence with a strong hand, and a stretched out arm. Therefore hath he commanded thee that thou shouldst observe the sabbath day.
16Honour thy father and mother, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee, that thou mayst live a long time, and it may be well with thee in the land, which the Lord thy God will give thee.
17Thou shalt not kill.
18Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
19And thou shalt not steal.
20Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
21Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife: nor his house, nor his field, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is his.
Two things happen when this false accusation is made against Christ’s Church. The accusers do not take into consideration that the English version is a translation from the original language which had no punctuation and the verses were not numbered. So translators have some liberty in numbering and punctuating the verses. They may not all do it the same way. That is why those of us who are clergy and academics study the original languages and biblical hermeneutics. It is only natural that the uneducated may misunderstand differences in interpretations. Critics of Catholic Christianity use these differences to make pejorative statements about Catholic teaching and in this case it is to attack the Church falsely by claiming that we are idolatrous in some way and that we do not forbid idolatry. This is not at all the truth. This is the teaching from the Catechism of the Catholic which is the official teaching from the teaching authority of the Church called the Magisterium:
Idolatry
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46
2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47
Now you also questioned the application of the following verses:
Revelation 22:18-19 (King James Version)
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Of course, St. John was obviously speaking of His prophecy alone as when he wrote the Apocalypse there was no biblical Canon and there would not be for another 350 years. But I agree with you that adding or taking away from the Bible is a great error. Of course, the Protestants removed 7 books of the Old Testament without any authority at all. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
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