16 April, 2010

Authority discussed with Jim the Baptist

(Cristoiglesia) Why not use the entire Word of God instead of just the written Word"

(Jim the Baptist) 2Timothy 3:16-17 says that the written Word is good enough for doctrine.

(Cristoiglesia) It is very difficult for one to understand scripture if they add to it what they want it to say. One should go to scriptures instead to learn. St. Paul is not saying that the scriptures are good enough for doctrine. He is saying that they are good enough to be used for teaching. That is exactly what the Church says the purposes are for the scriptures. It is one of the reasons that certain books were chosen by the Church to be scriptures. It is not saying that they are sufficient for doctrine although they do teach doctrine.

(Jim the Baptist) How did the Berean church in Acts 17 know who had truth and who didn't? "They searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so"

(Cristoiglesia) Again you are scriptures match your prejudice and to fit your heretical doctrine of Sola Scriptura. The Bereans were being taught orally and not with the written Word. What this proves is that the written Word was not in conflict with the oral teaching.

(Jim the Baptist) The church and the truth is determined by the Word of God. There are many oral traditions and many churches, but only the Word of God determines who and what is truth.

(Cristoiglesia) No, the written Word of God for Christians was determined by the Church under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the authority given by Christ to His Church. Now the tradition of Sola Scriptura followed by Protestants does act as the regula fidei but this is a false teaching and a false doctrine. It is instead the Church founded by Christ that is the regula fidei. There is only one Church but many sects claiming to be the church. They are instead in protest of Christ’s Church and outside of God’s will of unity. Jesus prayed that we all be one in His Church as He and the Father are one. There just is not any biblical support for your claim and it is denied by His Church.

(Cristoiglesia) your sect has no authority to interpret that Word.

(Jim the Baptist) No one has the right to privately interpret the Bible! Not the Catholic church and not my church. It is the obedience to the leadership of the Holy Spirit within the person along with Scripture that gives a person the and the authority to interpret the Bible.

(Cristoiglesia) No, your position is not biblical. The Church was given the authority for teaching by Jesus. The Bible was written by the Church to be studied and taught within the community of the Church. There was only one Church and still is only one that was spoken of in Scriptures and that is the Catholic Church. There would not be another Christian Church for 1500 years and 1850 years before your sect appeared. According to scriptures the Holy Spirit dwells within the person after being received at Baptism. But, it is the familial relationship within the Church that all truth is found. Sola Scriptura has proved that man left to his own discernment cannot agree on the teaching of Scripture. Every Baptist church has a different interpretation of the scriptures and each person in the pew thinks that his interpretation is correct. That is the seed of division and of schism that wounds the Corpus Christi because Sola Scriptura is not the teaching of our Lord but it is from an evil source whom is the enemy of God and the faithful. Jesus never told anyone to write scriptures but the Church took it on themselves to give a written record of the formation of the Church and how that formation was instituted by Jesus and the disciples.
The Protestants came along 16 centuries later and realized they had no authority to lead them as they had rejected the apostolic leadership provided by Jesus for His enduring Church. They were forced to appeal to a source lacking that divine leadership or authority given by Jesus. We know now that the fruits of Protestantism are exponentially increasing schisms and wounds in the Corpus Christi. The evidence is that Satan is the author of this division made possible and fueled by the heresy of Sola Scriptura.

(Jim the Baptist) And by the way, the Catholic church is just another sect that came along in 312 AD.

(Cristoiglesia) 312 AD was the Edict of Milan which was signed by the Roman emperor Constantine. The Edict for the first time gave freedom of religion to the Empire. No longer would the Christians be persecuted but could worship freely among the Pagan religions of Rome. Christians came out of the Catacombs and built churches in which to worship. The Church had been around since Pentecost and was not created because of this religious freedom but now enjoyed the ability to worship openly and without threat. Your statement that he Church was created in 312 AD is ridiculous and without any historical or patristic evidence to support such a claim. It is just a prejudiced, wishful and imaginative supposition without any proof.

(Cristoiglesia) who has the authority

(Jim the Baptist) There is the problem. You guys want control! You want to stand between the common layperson and the Bible, Christ, the Holy Spirit and God.

(Cristoiglesia) It is not that we want control but that we were given the responsibility and the authority to shepherd God’s flocks. There are times when we stand between our flocks and evil in the form of heresy to protect them from false teaching. It is because of this leadership and authority under the guidance of the Holy Spirit that ensures that the Church will endure for all times and remain for those times free from apostasy. The Bible can be used for evil by Satan to spread heresy. We have seen many instances of this in the history of the Church where the Church found it necessary to protect the Word from heresy. Where the Church has stood is between the truth and lies and protected the Word. Protestants are not the only ones that have used the scriptures to spread heresy and convince people that the heresy is truth. Satan know and can quote scriptures as well as the best scholar and twist them to his goals to separate mankind from the truth. Only the Church has Christ’s promise that it is the “pillar and foundation of the truth”. It is in the Church alone where all of God’s Word is taught in all its divine veracity.

(Jim the Baptist) You put the pope, Mary, priest and idols between the common lay person and Christ. THAT IS NOT BIBLICAL!!

(Cristoiglesia) I have no idea what you are alleging when you say that the Pope interferes with a personal relationship with Christ. If anything, the leadership structure of the Church enhances the relationship of the faithful and God.

The Church teaches that the blessed mother always points to her Son unselfishly as the source of our salvation and our hope.

The priest is chosen by God to serve the people in persona Christi and to deliver the grace necessary to endure to final salvation and to guide the faithful to obedience and sanctity.

There are no idols in the Catholic Church. In fact the Church teaches against idolatry in any fashion. Catholic Christians are forbidden to worship anyone or anything but God . The last place one would find idols is in the Catholic Church or God’s own house where He lives in our neighborhoods in the Tabernacle.

All of these things are biblical.

(Jim the Baptist) The poor Catholic person is robbed of a personal relationship with Christ and His Word!

(Cristoiglesia) But Jesus did not teach of a personal relationship but a corporeal relationship with God as a Church and not as individuals. But we have the most personal relationship possible with our Lord by sharing the great feast of unity and eating the truly real and substantial Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord and Savior. It is your faith in man-made doctrines that has robed you of this most personal of relationships with our Lord.

(Jim the Baptist) Your sect makes me sick! You bury the message in Latin, you have people confessing to priest and you don't allow the lay person to have any authority in the Church Christ started. And by the way, it was a Baptist church. Not by name but by practice and doctrine.

(Cristoiglesia) Latin has always been the language of the Church. For the first 1500 years of the Church it was the language of scholars. If a person could read and write in the Western World and most of the East He read and write Latin. Latin is the vernacular and universal language of the Church. No message was buried in Latin but instead proclaimed for all to understand. Once before Vatican II a Catholic could go to any Mass in the world and understand the teaching of the Bible. Now that word is divided into many different languages that is almost like the Tower of Babel in its confusion for those not familiar with the vernacular where once there was a unity of language among all Christians. You cannot blame confessions to priests on the Church as we are just being obedient to Christ’s instructions to forgive or retain sins and bind or loose in persona Christi. La y people have a great deal of authority in the Church which is predominantly to preach the Word of God and evangelize those separated from Christ’s Church. The Baptist Church is nothing like the first century Church in practice, faith or apostolic leadership that still leads the Church today. God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

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