Discussion with "Sylvia C" About The Source of the Church's Authority

(Sylvia C) “Better look at the gospel according to St John, who said In the beginning was the Word and Word was with God and the Word was God"Are you saying John the disciple of Christ is a liar? Christ was the Word made flesh"

Of course Jesus Christ was the Word made flesh. Why would you suppose that anyone would reading the inspired writing of St. John would think that he is a liar?

(Sylvia C) “Therefore when He said "I am the bread of Life sent from heaven, as He is the Word, and speaks the Word, then His Word is the bread from heaven, which nourishes our souls, His disciples did not even believe in His resurrection until He appeared to them.”

(Cristoiglesia) Using the word “therefore” would suggest that you have come to a conclusion based, I would assume, on the teaching in the Bible that Jesus is the Word made flesh other than the plain teaching that it indicates. Yes, he did say that He is the “bread of life” making the comparison to the wandering in the desert of the Israelites  when they were nourished and kept alive by the manna sent from God to sustain them. He was indeed comparing spiritual nourishment to the physical nourishment of the Israelites. He would do this often from the beginning of this theme at the colloquy at Capernaum until the final Words from the Cross. As you correctly say, the disciple St. Thomas had to confirm the resurrection by putting his hands in the wounds that our Lord sustained on the Cross. However we do not find the same doubts in the other disciples but certainly His appearances among them confirmed any doubts they may have had. I still do not see how you can suggest that anyone is calling or thinking that St. John is a liar. 

 (Sylvia C) “Better read St John again, and ask the Lord to open your heart and mind to His Word, as there is nothing about choosing a pope as head of the church, as this is what Christ said the gates of hell would not prevail against it.”

(Cristoiglesia) The Gospel of St. John is my favorite Gospel and I have read it countless times and have done so with an open heart and intent to learn from His teaching. I never approach the Scriptures eisegetically but always to learn. You confused me a bit as the appointment of St. Peter is recorded in St. Matthew’s Gospel Chapter 16.

Certainly in Matthew 16 Jesus is referring to the prophecy of Isaiah in Isaiah 22 and in doing so He is fulfilling the prophetic imagery prophesied by the prophet Isaiah. The prime minister referred to by Isaiah is a type for the appointment of St. Peter to be the leader, steward and authority over His family or household. It further emphasizes by Christ’s actions in His appointment that He, Jesus, having received the throne of David by virtue of His Father is asserting His claim to the throne of David and as the rightful successor as king of all of Judah and Israel. He fulfills this by asserting the legal precedent necessary to fulfill prophecy and appoints St. Peter as the steward over His kingdom. He is claiming by this action what He came to do which was to establish a new and enduring Covenant with His Kingdom. But was this Kingdom fully established at this time or was it just a stepping stone to the establishing of His Kingdom in His appointment of St. Peter in Matthew 16? Certainly, the time had not yet come for the Prime Minister, St. Peter, to exercise the power of the keys for Christ had not yet revealed His glory or made claim to His kingdom with the establishment of the New Covenant. This would not happen until Calvary where Jesus would from the cross drink of the cup of consummation from the hyssop branch and then utter the words, “it is finished” after which He gave up His Spirit and His glory was revealed. He would finish His redemptive work three days later when He raised from the dead. Only then was all prophecy fulfilled and the law satisfied. St. Peter was now endowed with the Authority of Christ to be the royal steward over Christ’s kingdom. So great was this authority that He had the authority to bind or loose on earth as well as in heaven and became the spiritual father of Christ’s family. The keys represent the supremacy of the power bestowed on St. Peter and he is fastened on a peg and carries the weight of maintaining the King’s (Christ’s) house. So great are the parallels between Eliakim and St. Peter that it is implausible to deny that Eliakim is a type for St. Peter. The new kingdom is not a kingdom of land and of a people but it is the establishment of a spiritual kingdom of God and not of men. Keeping with the typology the office of Eliakim was an enduring office and so too is the office that St. Peter to which he has been appointed. Only the prime minister holds the keys of supreme authority and not only the first among equals but the special and singular authority among the disciples and visible head of the Church.

Let us look directly at the parallels between Isaiah 22 and Matthew 16.

The prime minister in David’s household had successors:

Isa 22:15, 1 Kings 4:6, & 18:3, 2 Kings 10:5, 15:5, 18:18

We see the full authority given to the prime minister:

Isa 22:22, Mat 16:19, Rev 3:7

Further teaching of the authority of the prime minister:

Mat 24:45, Luk 12:42, Gen 41:40, Gen 43:19

(Sylvia C) “The Word revealed by the Holy spirit to Peter, "Thou art the Christ the son of the Living God." on this faith the gates of hell cannot prevail, not peter a sinfull man, who even told the Lord Depart from me “

(Cristoiglesia) The office of prime minister which Jesus ordained is indeed a holy office as it gets its veracity and holiness directly from Christ. The holder of the office is not holy but the office will forever be the teaching authority of the Church. So holy and truthful was this office that Jesus gave the power to bind and to loose saying: “what is bound on earth is bound in heaven and what is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven”. Jesus even sent the Holy Spirit to ensure any of the faithful with doubts that the Church will forever be the “pillar and foundation of the truth”. Jesus even said that the Church will never fall into apostasy. If we are to understand the Church as the disciples understood it we are to know that the visible entity of the Church is the apostles and their successors that the faithful gather around. Those who follow the bishops are the invisible Church known only by God. Truly one cannot deny the building of the Church by Jesus. Lest there be any doubt we see Jesus using construction vernacular stating that He is the high priest and cornerstone which holds the visible entity of the Church together. The Bible states that the 12 disciples are the 12 foundation stones of the Church. Jesus even changes the name of Simon His disciple to Peter (Petros in the Greek) to show that the holy office He ordained is indeed enduring as well. The building of the Church on this firm foundation that is built upon by the successors of the disciples is indeed the visible Church. It is not a like a house built on sand that cannot endure against the storm but instead is a construction of the most enduring of materials that can even endure the “gates of hell”. Sure St. Peter was a sinner as are all of us and he indeed was chastised by our lord and disciplined. But, after the glory of God was revealed on the cross none of His followers doubted that He was indeed God in the flesh and the perfect sacrifice as the lamb of God for the atonement of mankind..

(Sylvia C) “Lord for I am a sinfull man at least Peter recognized his sinfullness,”

(Cristoiglesia) Of course.

(Sylvia C) “whereas your pope is not Holy, only the Lord God is holy, “

(Cristoiglesia) No one claims that the Pope is Holy but instead that he holds the Holy office of prime minister ordained personally by Jesus.

(Sylvia C) “that is why Christ stood in the breach for us, to take on the wrath of God for us sinful people as God and sin cannot walk together”

(Cristoiglesia) Correct to a point….being God He was the perfect sacrifice required for the atonement. His sacrifice atoned for our sins in its perfection.

(Sylvia C) “Just the Lord Christ Jesus prayer "forgive them Father for they know not what they do" making intercession, and "My God my God why hast thou forsaken Me" our sins were upon Him, Isaiah chapter 53 the whole chapter. “

(Cristoiglesia) When Jesus said….”My God, My God, why have you forsaken me” he was not taking on the sin of the world as Protestant exegetes usually interpret but was instead giving up His humanity. It was His human nature that was forsaken and not His divine nature which was about to enter into the Kingdom or the New Covenant with mankind.

(Sylvia C) “nothing to do with your pope, or Mary who was only a vessel for the Christ to make His entry into the world, coas she herself said "My soul magnifies the Lord" which lord is she talking about, surely it has to be the Lord God of Israel? as she was Jewish of the line of David.”

(Cristoiglesia) The Pope is simply the holder of the enduring office ordained by Christ. Certainly the blessed mother of God was consecrated to God to bear Christ. She was prepared at her very conception to be the mother of God. Indeed her perfect sinless soul did indeed magnify the love of God. Yes,  it does speak of the one true God of the Trinity which is the same God of the Jews as Christianity is truly perfected Judaism.

(Sylvia C) “At the wedding at Canaan, Christ rebuked her, and said to her, "My time has not yet come, therefore she has no influence, but because He answers prayer, He fulfilled her request, and what did Mary say to the servants? "LISTEN TO HIM'”

(Cristoiglesia) First of all let me make this very clear to you….Jesus never his whole life sinned in any way. He did not sin by not honoring His mother here as you seem to claim. He never broke a single commandment as He being God that would be impossible. Indeed the blessed mother of God always points to her Son.

Thank you for your commentary and the opportunity to contend for the faith delivered once for all. God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph

 

Part ll

(Sylvia C) Thank you for replying, but I am not mistaken, Do you remember Christ when He was on the cross, He breathed His last Word "It is finished" and the veil was rend in half, from top to bottom, therefore no more sacrifices and no more priests standing in the temple offering daily sacrifices, as Christ is the Lamb of God.

(Cristoiglesia) Of course.

(Cristoiglesia) Your welcome as it is always a pleasure, privilege and an honor to contend for the faith delivered once for all. You have blessed me with your commentary and the opportunity to comment on your errors. Of course I remember what the Bible teaches about the crucifixion of our Lord.

The chronology of what happened on the cross was very important as the sacrifice of the cross was the completion of the Old Covenant Passover. The one final sacrifice of the cross completing the temple sacrifice with the continuous sacrifice of the Mass. It started in the Upper Room and is completed on the cross offering pure love to the father for all times. Let us look at the chronology:

Jesus says on the cross according to St. Mark….”My God, My God, why have you forsaken me” and then according to St. John the only disciple that was there Jesus said, “I thirst”. St. John then records that Jesus then said, “It is finished”.

To understand this we have to go back to what happened at the last supper when Jesus said according to St. Mark, “I tell you the truth, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink again in the Kingdom of God.” He did not drink the last cup which is called the cup of consummation then so the Passover Seder would not be completed or consummated until the last moments on the cross when indeed His Kingdom come. This would be very odd not to complete the Passover Seder to His disciples who surely would have noticed that the obligation was not completed to the Father. It would be completed on the cross.

When Jesus said….”My God, My God, why have you forsaken me” he was not taking on the sin of the world as Protestant exegetes usually interpret but was instead giving up His humanity. It was His human nature that was forsaken and not His divine nature which was about to enter into the Kingdom or the New Covenant with mankind. He said then according to St. John….”I thirst” and then from a hyssop branch, which was the same as the branch that spread the Lamb’s blood on the door posts of the Israelites that saved their first born sons, a sponge with sour wine was put to Jesus’ lips. This was the drinking of the last cup of Passover called the cup of consummation which instituted His kingdom and the New Covenant with mankind and the end of the Old Covenant with Israel with the words, “it is finished (consummated)” meaning the Old Covenant.

Certainly the end of the Old Covenant did away with the animal sacrifices of the Old Covenant. But Jesus instituted a new sacrifice to fulfill the prophecy of Malachi which says, “(Mal 1:11) For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.” The new sacrifice is a continuous sacrifice to the Father until Christ comes again and that sacrifice is called the Eucharist. Indeed priests are still the hands and mouth of God but are now the priests of the New Covenant and the successors of the disciples. Remember the foundation of the disciples is to be built upon to increase the harvest of the Church. The continuing sacrifice ties in with Jesus commanding us to eat His Body and to drink His Blood for eternal life. It is by this act that we are provided with the grace to endure in faith. Christ continues to offer His great feast of the Eucharist until He comes again.

(Sylvia C) Christ slain for the sins of the world as He is now our High priest who makes intercession for us and since we believe that Christ is Lord and Savior.”

(Cristoiglesia) Correct

(Sylvia C) God the father looks on us with favor when we confess our sins to Christ alone.

(Cristoiglesia) I do not presume to know what God thinks of our confessions but He certainly is pleased when we are obedient and do as He taught us. In all of Scriptures there is no teaching as you presume to confess our sins only to God. The only teaching of our Lord in regards to confession is that it is to be done to a priest as they alone are given the power to bind and to loose by Jesus. He ordained the disciples and their successors with this authority and it is reasonable to assume that this was not given in vain but instead that Jesus expected His followers to be obedient and do as He instructed. In confession the priest acts in persona Christi and becomes the hands and the mouth of God. In other words even though the priest receives the confession and gives absolution it is Christ who is the source of the forgiveness.

(Sylvia C) “As when we accept Him as Lord and savior and believe on His Word, God sends His holy spirit into our hearts which searches our hearts and makes our requests known to Him. “

(Cristoiglesia) This is not what the Bible teaches. Jesus taught to Nicodemus and thus to us that we are to prepare a place for the Holy Spirit to dwell. It starts with God’s appeal to the law on our hearts which brings us to faith. We are then to become baptized in the name of the Trinity where we are cleansed and born again in Christ. It is in this pure state of before the fall that the Holy Spirit comes into our soul and leads our hearts to righteousness, endurance and hopefully final salvation.

It is not the Holy Spirit that must confess our sins to God but it is instead each man’s responsibility to realize his sin, be sorrowful and contrite and humble oneself before Christ seeking forgiveness. The Holy Spirit cannot do this for us.

(Sylvia C) “No more need of priests, as we have one intercessor which is Christ our Lord, as Christ makes God the father known to us.”

The needs for priests are as necessary as ever to fulfill God’s commandments and provide the grace of God to endure to final salvation. Christ did not create an enduring Church without an enduring leadership. We know of His will because He prayed the night before His crucifixion that we be one in His Church the Catholic Church. The continuing division of the Protestant faiths into tens of thousands of counterfeit sects is evidence that if man is left without leadership that God’s Word is diluted by the confusion and the division instead of the unity that His Church represents.  Those calling themselves the Christian faithful outside the ark of the Church do so in rebellion to Jesus’ will. Just like those who refused the ark of Noah they place themselves into great danger and probable destruction just as those in the flood were destroyed. Priests are indeed intercessors but are certainly not mediators as the Bible forbids. We are all intercessors when we pray for one another.

 (Sylvia C) It is only through Christ’s redeeming work we can be saved.

(Cristoiglesia) Yes that is the continuous teaching of the Church for 2000 years.

Sylvia C) The Roman Catholic Church is no better than those Pharisees, who also did not believe in the simplicity of Christ and His Word. Shalom

(Cristoiglesia) Peace to you also but I am at a loss to understand how you are comparing the Pharisees to the Church. Surely the Church believes in God’s Word as it is the Church that wrote the New Testament and canonized the complete Christian Canon. There is a certain simplicity to God’s Word but there is also a complexity to His word that requires discipline and training to understand the Word in all of its fullness. It is the Church and its scholarship that provides that fullness of truth. That is why the Bible calls the Church the “pillar and foundation of the truth and not the Bible instead. God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph

Part III

(Sylvia C) “I believe it is you and the roman catholic church who has misunderstood the message of our Lord Christ Jesus.”

(Cristoiglesia) Well, let us see if you can make a case for your claim….

 (Sylvia C) re: upon this Rock will I build my church. It is upon the faith that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God, as this is what was revealed to Peter by the Holy Spirit, are you saying the Holy spirit lied? Isn’t that blasphemy?

(Cristoiglesia) I do not understand how you can say that I believe that the Holy Spirit lied. On what basis do you make such a claim? Speaking to St. Peter Jesus renames Simon to Peter which from the Greek is Petros which means Rock. He then says upon this rock (Petros=Peter) I will build my Church. What He was doing here is fulfilling the prophecy in Isaiah 22 and ordaining the office of prime minister of which St. Peter is appointed by Jesus as the first to hold this Holy office. St. Peter was given the keys to heaven as the prime minister of God’s Kingdom.  He further gave St. Peter the authority to bind and to loose saying whatever is loosed on earth will be loosed in heaven and whatever is bound on earth is bound in heaven. Your chronology is incorrect also as the Holy Spirit would not be given to the Church until Pentecost. Let me ask you this…It is a fact that it is necessary for the prophesied Messiah to fulfill all prophecy. If Jesus did not fulfill this prophecy by appointing St. Peter as His prime minister then according to Scriptures this is a sign that He is not the Messiah. So, who did fulfill this prophecy? No, understanding that Jesus did indeed fulfill prophecy is not blasphemy but the opposite of blasphemy instead.

(Sylvia C) As Christ is the Rock,

(Cristoiglesia)The Bible does not teach that Christ is the “rock” but instead it is Jesus that called St. Peter “rock” and changed his name forever from Simon. Christ is called in the Bible the cornerstone of the Church but Simon is called St. Peter when He was appointed by Christ as the prime minister of His Church.

(Sylvia) “He gave way and denied the Lord . So, how can a church be built upon the denial of Peter?” Which is ironic

(Cristoiglesia) this was a sign that Jesus was indeed the Messiah and perfect Lamb of God as this was prophesied to happen. The Church is not built upon any denial of St. Peter but instead upon its founder, cornerstone and high priest Jesus who is the Word made flesh.  

(Sylvia C) “The roman catholic church also denies the risen Christ, as the church still has Him upon the cross, He has risen.and now sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us.”

(Cristoiglesia) Again you are illustrating your lack of knowledge of Scriptures. Are you not aware that St. Paul taught to preach Jesus crucified? Jesus being on the cross is a depiction of this crucifixion and focuses ones thoughts on what Jesus did for us in suffering a condemned sinners death when He was the perfection of God and perfect in all ways. He is indeed risen and sits at the right hand of the Father mediating for us instead of being an intercessor as you claim. This is the teaching of the Bible and the Church.

(Sylvia C) “The pope is not the vicar of Christ and how come he is not Jewish Peter was Jewish was married and Jewish people are not allowed to marry outside their race”

(Cristoiglesia) When St. Peter was appointed as Christ’s prime minister of His Kingdom He became also Christ’s vicar as He was appointed to do Christ’s work which is the definition of what a vicar performs in his duties. There is no place in the Bible that states that the prime minister must be Jewish or married. There is no evidence that St. Peter was married when he followed Jesus. The Bible simply references where he went to His mother-in-laws house but the tradition of the Church is that he was a widower.

 (Sylvia C) “May the Lord have mercy upon you all for misleading the people.”

I think it would be wise to make a case for your accusations before claiming them. However, I will join your prayer that our Lord will have mercy on me a sinner. I pray that He will have mercy on you as well. God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph
 

Part IV

(Sylvia C) “The church is a human institution, comprised of people for whom Christ gave His life.”

(Cristoiglesia)I think that it is fair to say that the Church is a human institution when one is speaking of the invisible Church which is known only to God. The invisible Church is made up of those who have a true faith in our lord. But, when speaking of the visible Church it is made up of those who gather around the bishops who have the authority of Christ to teach and to shepherd His flock. As St. Ignatius said while on His way to be martyred in the Roman arena; in a letter to the Smyrnaeans, “where the bishop is there is the Church.” So it is the bishops in apostolic succession that are the evidence of the visible Church founded by Christ.

(Sylvia C) When God receives us as His children through Christ, He chastises us, and makes us know what is not right within us, as we are a work in progress. Sometimes straying from the straight and narrow, as why then would Christ give the example of the 99 sheep and one went astray. The lord knows those who are His, as He calls them out by name. and we recognize His voice, and a strange voice we do not follow.”

(Cristoiglesia) Correct, and it is done by the Holy Spirit appealing to the law circumcised on our hearts.

(Sylvia C) “The roman catholic church does not even acknowledge that Christ is head of the church,”

(Cristoiglesia) That is incorrect as the Church teaches that Jesus is the cornerstone of the Church and the high priest. I do not know where you heard this absolute nonsense but it definitely is not true. The Church teaches that the successor of St. Peter that holds the Holy office of prime minister that is ordained by Christ is the Vicar of Christ. This means that He has the authority from Christ to lead the Church.  Only he is given the keys to heaven. The authority of the Pope only emphasizes the sovereignty of Christ over the Church and is its head.

(Sylvia C) “Consider the two thieves on the cross, one acknowledged his sins and misdeeds, and asked the Christ to remember Him, when He came into His kingdom. Therefore he acknowledged Christ as Lord and savior. Whereas the other, mocked Christ and never acknowledged his sinfulness or that Christ is Lord over all things. This is only one example.”

(Cristoiglesia) I am not sure how you are connecting the thief on the Cross to your previous statement of the Church not acknowledging Christ as the head of the Church. The fact is that we proclaim this at every Mass and throughout our teaching.

(Sylvia C) “Then listen to what Christ said about His disciples. "Did I not choose you twelve and one of you is a devil?" See we dont choose the Lord, the Lord chooses us, and knows our hearts as He knew that Judas was robbing the poor.”

(Cristoiglesia) Again you are quoting the teaching of the Church, as it is the Holy Spirit that draws all men to His Church and to faith. Don’t you think that Jesus was referring not only to Judas’ sinfulness but to the fact that he was ungrateful for the wonderful privilege and blessing he received by being chosen and as a result was destroyed by his sin.

(Sylvia C) Christ if our Good Shepherd, who watches over us, not the roman catholic church.  The church is not the savior of the world, only Christ Saves as He is called the Redeemer of Israel. Israel are the people who have the same faith as Abraham had, who believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness, that is why we are adopted into Israel.”

(Cristoiglesia) Christ is the “Good Shepherd” which is deservedly one of His divine titles. The visible Church is the fold of the sheep that He has called to Him. The Church is the ark for humanity and is a type of the ark of Noah and His family. Just as they were saved by the protection of the ark so too did Jesus build His Church so that His sheep could endure a sinful and seductive world to final salvation. It is the Church that dispenses God’s grace to the faithful through His Sacraments and makes sacrifice to the Father to fulfill the Scriptures. As Jesus said, His enduring Church will never fall into apostasy as the gates of hell will never prevail against His Church. To claim otherwise is to call Jesus a liar. The Bible states that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth” in plain and unambiguous language. If you do not believe this then obviously you must believe that the Bible is a false teacher. Certainly in our adoption we are rightfully called perfected Judaism in Christ Jesus, His Kingdom and New Covenant. God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph  

 

Part V

(Sylvia C) “I haven’t read your blog.”

It is obvious from your misconceptions that it would benefit you to read and learn. But , at least, your posts illustrate the ignorance people have of Christ’s Church and the fact that people choose to remain intentionally ignorant so that they can maintain their hatred and prejudice.

(Sylvia C) “I dont like the roman catholic church”

(Cristoiglesia) Matthew 18:17-18

New King James Version (NKJV)

17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

18 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

It is very sad that you do not “like” that which Jesus has built for you. Jesus uses the word Church only twice in the Bible. He uses the word once when He speaks of building His Church upon the “ROCK” which is St. Peter. He uses it the second time when He speaks of the Church as the final authority on earth for faith and teaching. Since the Catholic Church was the only Church in the first century then the Scriptures must be speaking of the Catholic Church. Why would you as a professed Christian not like the Catholic Church.

(Sylvia C) To say that the pope is related to Peter, is impossible and a lie, Peter was married, and Jewish people do not marry outside of their own race. So don’t see how a German can be related to Peter, who denied the Lord three times.

(Cristoiglesia) I am rally at a loss to understand what you mean when you say that St. Peter is related to the current Pope. It is as if you are believing that there is some kind of blood kinship. The fact is that they are not related according to bloodline but according to the office they hold. All popes are the successor of St. Peter and not his kinsmen. The current Pope Benedict the XVI is related only in he holds the same office ordained by Christ. That being said….the Jewish people do often marry outside their race both today and in biblical times. Many of David’s wives were Ethiopian.

(Sylvia C) “It is rather ironic as the pope also denies Christ as head of the church.”

(Cristoiglesia) I do not know where you get such an idea from but this is not true.

(Sylvia C) “Besides, the church is not the saviour of the world, the church is still a human institution, which can be ruled by satan if the church is not grounded in the Love of Christ and His commandments.”

(Cristoiglesia) The Church never claims to be the savior of the world but instead proclaims Christ as our Savior. The Church is the bride of Christ and is anything but a human institution but is instead other worldly and heavenly. The Church is not only the example of Christ’s love for us but for our love and devotion for Him.

(Sylvia C) “The Lord Christ never said that Mary was co -redemptress with Him.”

(Cristoiglesia) No, but the Bible teaches that she participated in our redemption by being obedient to God and saying “yes” to being the bearer of the Savior of the world.

(Sylvia C) He said "If you anyone denies me before men, I will also deny them before my Father in heaven." also I have come to call Israel to repentance." One then must belong to the same faith as Abraham, as the Lord God made a covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

(Cristoiglesia) Yes, that is why the Church is called perfected Judaism. It is perfected by Christ on the Cross when He instituted His Kingdom and the New Covenant with mankind.

(Sylvia C) “Beside Paul went to preach to those Jews dispersed among the gentiles. unless you heart is circumcized by Christ and His Word dwells richly in you, you are not one of His elect. as He knows His sheep and calls them by name. and His sheep know Him and follow Him.

(Cristoiglesia) Everyone has the law circumcised on their hearts as this is the way that the Holy Spirit speaks to us and what gives us the ability to understand and respond.

(Sylvia C) “The voice of the roman catholic church is the voice of a hireling. sorry but I am convinced that Christ is above all and like Isaiah said "The Lord looks to those who are humble in heart and contrite in spirit. and think about this. "Seek ye the Lord, while He may yet be found" does there come a time when one cannot find Him?

(Cristoiglesia) Jesus says that to hear the Church is to hear Christ and to despise the Church is to despise Christ and the Father in heaven.

Luke 10:16

King James Version (KJV)

16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph

Part VI

(Sylvia C) “I can’t believe that one can be so muddled about what Christ has preached and still believe in the roman catholic church.”

(Cristoiglesia) Why? Are you not aware that the Bible states that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth”? The Bible also states that the Church will endure for all times and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Jesus prayed to the Father that we all be one in His Church yet people who criticize the Church ignore these truths because they cling to their man-made doctrines. I was one of those people once but by God’s grace I was delivered from this false teaching based solely on prejudice. The Lord said the world would hate us as it hated Him.

(SylviaC) “It has been shown to me that it is Christ who saves, not the roman catholic church, which is full of heresies and does not even follow the Words of our Lord Christ Jesus.

 (Cristoiglesia) Well, at least you agree with the Church that we are saved by God’s grace poured out to us from the cross but what you do not understand this is that the Church is the fountain of God’s grace that feeds the soul through His Sacraments. This is the food providing the salvific grace needed to endure to final salvation. The Church is the ark to save all of His faithful just as the ark of Noah preserved mankind the Church preserves the faithful from spiritual death and subsequent destruction into eternal torment and separation from Christ. There is not a single word taught by our Lord that the Church does not follow. Such a possibility denies the promise of Christ that the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church. Jesus is not a liar as your claim suggests.

(Sylvia C) “First of all remember Christ said "I have come to call Israel to repentance." remember the woman who was not a Jew, whom asked the Lord to heal her daughter, and Christ mentioned that it was not to give the bread of the children to the dogs. We gentiles are the dogs. The Israelites are the children of Abraham, as God made a covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But because the woman's faith was in Christ mercy and compassion and she did not argue with Him. She said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs which fall from the children's table."  Remember, what Christ said to her, "Your faith has made thee whole" so since we believe in Christ, G-ds only begotten son, He gives us the power to become children of G-d through Him and not the roman catholic church, not Mary, not the pope or even the priests, who are not married to the church.

(Cristoiglesia) Actually the priesthood is the visible Church as was taught by St. Ignatius of Antioch in his letter to the Smyrnaeans. He said, “ where the bishop is there is the Church”. So without the bishops and the priesthood there is no visible Church. The Bible states that the priesthood is the foundation of the Church that is to be built upon by apostolic succession with Christ as the cornerstone and the high priest.

[St. Ignatius was the disciple of both St. John and St. Peter. He was appointed to the bishopric of Antioch by St. Peter personally. His companion disciple and good friend was St. Polycarp. St. Ignatius He wrote the letter to the Smyrnaeans on his way to Rome to be martyred by being eaten by the beasts in the Roman Arena. He wrote a total of seven letters to the various congregations of the Church on his journey. It is significant that he wrote a letter to the congregation in Rome not to interfere with his martyrdom.]     

(Sylvia C) “The church is just a building and the church are the people who put all their trust and faith in Christ the Redeemer of Israel. Jesus shed His blood for the church (His people) as no one can come unto the Father unless the Father God draws Him" G-d only looks on us with favor when we confess that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God.”

(Cristoiglesia) The Church is the visible example as St. Ignatius said of those who follow the Bishop and not just some ethereal invisible entity known only to God but instead the Church is both the visible, in that it consists of those faithful to the bishops and to the foundation established by Christ, and to those with sufficient grace to believe in Him yet lacking the sufficient grace to come into His visible living entity of His Church. His visible Church is now and forever will be the will of God for His sheep who hear His voice.

(SylviaC) Please dont be rude (Cristoiglesia). I would not intentionally be rude to anyone.

(Cristoiglesia) I have no desire or inclination to be rude to you and I appreciate our discussion and pray that others will be enlightened by its content.

God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph

 

Part Vll

(Sylvia C) “You are kidding are you not.”

(Cristoiglesia) No, I am completely serious.

(Sylvia C) “I detest the roman catholic church.”

(Cristoiglesia) I know you do but not because of what the Church teaches or practices but because you have been told lies about the Church and as a result have many misconceptions about the Church teachings.   .

(Sylvia C) “You have purgatory, which is not biblical, No one can pray someone out of purgatory, one reason the roman catholic church became so rich.”

(Cristoiglesia) If you were knowledgeable of the Bible and approached the Bible to learn one of the things you would learn is that the Doctrine of Purgatory is one of the most biblically supported of all Christian doctrines. Here is a link to my writing about purgation and its biblical support:

http://fiatvolvntastua.blogspot.com/2009/06/what-should-we-understand-about.html

(Sylvia C) “Another they tithe the people who could ill afford it, so they confiscated their property. This I believe Christ would surely condemn.”

(Cristoiglesia) No, the Catholic Church does not require tithes nor does it confiscate property of those who do not tithe.

(Sylvia C) “The vatican witheld the Jewish people from gaining a homeland. documents show that Pope Pius had no complaints about the nazi occupation during the second world war.”

(Cristoiglesia) Really? Are you aware that the Jews praised the actions of the Church and particularly Pope Pius Xll. Here is a link:

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idCategory=33&idsub=124&id=56002&t=Israeli+diplomat+praises+Pope+Pius+XII+for+saving+thouands+of+Jews+during+the+Holocaust

(Sylvia C) “Hitler was a roman catholic, who did not even obey the commandment of the Lord God Thou shalt not kill" “

(Cristoiglesia) He was a Catholic at one time in his life but fell away from the faith as a young man. He was in favor of forming a national church to promote the Nazi socialist movement and probably would have had he been successful in the war. But personally the record shows that he was an occultist.

(Sylvia C) “Christ never said that Mary was co –redemptress.”

(Cristoiglesia) By her saying yes to the Angel of the Lord she became a participant in God’s divine plan and as such is indeed a co-redemptress.

(Sylvia C)  “Christ was with the Lord God at the beginning of Creation, so how could Mary be His mother.”

(Cristoiglesia) At the Annunciation the blessed mother of God became a integral participant in God’s redemptive plan for mankind. As a participant her womb was consecrated to God and nourished the child that she carried and which was subsequently born to her. His name was called Immanuel which means God among us and was first prophesied by the prophet Isaiah. Therefore the biblical teaching is that Jesus is God and the Son of the blessed virgin Mary. She is His mother.  

(Sylvia C) “It was a prophesy fullfilled, as Mary was of the royal line of David, and Christ chose the lowly womb to make His entry into the world.”

(Cristoiglesia) Yes He did and did so at her conception to prepare her for being the bearer of the Savior of the world named Jesus.

(Sylvia) “Also Mary said "My soul magnifies the Lord" which Lord was her soul magnifying? Was it not the Lord God of Israel, who sent Christ who came to do the "Will of God?'”

(Cristoiglesia) The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three persons in the one God.

 (Sylvia C) “Also the roman catholic church still has Him on the cross, and He is no longer on the cross He has risen.

(Cristoiglesia) Yes and you would not know these things if it was not for the Church that witnessed this, recorded it in the New Testament and proclaimed it for 2000 years. You are aware that St. Paul taught to preach Christ crucified are you not? One can preach with words or use an image that speaks volumes. Preaching Christ crucified does not take away from the resurrection which completed His atonement. The Churhc proclaims that Christ is risen indeed.

(Sylvia C) “How does your pope know the figure depicted on the cross, is not one of the thieves on either side of Him the pope carries around isnt this idolatry?”

I really have no idea what you are asking. The figure on the cross that the pope carries is not an idol. No one idolizes an inanimate piece of Christian art. The pope carries an image that reminds us of Christ and not the thieves except that he was crucified among them.

(Sylvia C) “I believe one has the same faith and are united as brothers and sisters in Christ, when one believes Christ is Lord of lords and King of kings, and head of the church.”

(Cristoiglesia) It is good that you also believe in Christ as your Savior but how can you truly believe in Him and not follow His teaching or His will in all its fullness? Jesus built His Church so that we could be saved just as the ark of Noah saved humanity so too does His Church. The Church protects His faithful by being a fountain of God’s grace that helps all to endure to final salvation. How can you be truly faithful and not be in unity with His Church and instead represent the prophecy of those who cannot endure the sound doctrine of His Church and follow instead those false teachers who satisfy their itching ears? If you truly believe that Christ is the head of the Church then why do you reject that Church. Your words do not match your actions. Instead you simply try to justify your disobedience to our Lord.

(Sylvia C) “After all it was Christ who shed His blood for the church and overcame death for us and not the pope, not any of his bishops, or cardinals. When one acknowledges Christ as Lord and savior who took on the wrath of God for our sins and now sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us when we draw near to His throne of mercy. Anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ the son of the Living God will also deny before His father in heaven. “

(Cristoiglesia) No one has ever claimed that the Pope was the atoning sacrifice but instead the Church has always proclaimed to the world the Gospel of our Lord in truth as we were the witnesses. The Pope, Cardinals, Bishops and priests simply serve Christ’s faithful and proclaim the fullness of truth of Christ’s teaching. You know tht Christ is the Son of God because the Church has taught it.

(Sylvia C) “So unless the roman catholic church humble itself and apologize to the Jewish people for saying they killed the Jesus the Christ”

(Cristoiglesia) We pray for sinners and do not apologize unless we are at fault in some way. The Church does not teach that the Jews are responsible for Christ’s death on the Cross but only that they were participants in the final passion of our Lord by their condemnation before His judge Pontius Pilot.

 (SylviaC)  “The roman catholic church is just as guilty of crucifying Christ by praying to dead saints. Or, by holding the spanish inquisition or, by deceiving the people if they missed mass that they went to hell.

(Cristoiglesia) The Church does not pray to dead saints as saints are very much alive in Christ and in heaven. The Spanish Inquisition was secular in nature. It is not deception to say that one puts their eternal destination in jeopardy by not following Christ’s commandment to eat His Body and to drink His Blood. He said that unless we do then we have no life in us. We are commanded by our Lord to participate in the sacrifice of the Mass and the great feast that our Lord provides.

(Sylvia C) “Praying to the queen of heaven Mary, who has no influence with our Lord, as Christ said 'those who do the will of my Father are my sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers and the will of the Lord God of Israel is to put their faith and trust in Him and listen to Christ Jesus whom He sent who became the Lamb of God and takes away the sins of the world.”

(Cristoiglesia) If you read about the wedding of Cana you will find that Jesus does indeed listen to His mother and honors her as honoring one’s mother is not an option but a Commandment. Jesus never sinned once or broke any of His Commandments. But even if she was not His mother she certainly is righteous and the Bible teaches that the prayers of a righteous person will benefit us. All we ask for is her prayers to Her Son for us as an intercessor. She prays for us just as we pray for others out of our Christian love for one another in His Church. She has great influence over her son and great influence on our salvific hope when she as a righteous person prays for us.   

(Sylvia C) “Take care and ask the Lord for understanding, insight into His Word and come with a believing heart and an open mind, so that the Word of God will dwell richly within you. G-d bless”

(Cristoiglesia) If we both follow your words then there will be a good result and you will come home to Christ’s own Church and reject the man-made counterfeit that you follow. God bless you also.

In Christ

Fr. Joseph

Part Vlll

(Sylvia C) “Sorry it is very nice of you to pray for me, but I am already one of Christ sheep as He is my Good shepherd, who gave His life for me.”

(Cristoiglesia) It is Christ’s desire that everyone have unity in His Church so it is the responsibility of every Christian to seek out those like yourself who are outside the fold of Christ’s Church and without the protection from the evil seduction of the sin in the world. Christ does not want  you outside of His will but instead He wants you in His own Church which is the ark of the New Covenant.  

(Sylvia C) “I cant believe in a church that thinks it is the savior of the world, there is no savior except Christ, and one must come to Him with a contrite heart and humble in spirit.”

Huh? What Church would that be? Jesus atoned for our sins and is the Savior who wants us to follow Him in unity in His Church and not the man-made counterfeits.

(Sylvia C) Strange how our Lord never needed body guards, but relied on the Father in heaven alone, yet your pope needs a bullet proof vest and a pope mobile. why does he not trust the Lord God to preserve his life. And think Christ was born in a stable and look how the Vatican lives in a palace, hardly conducive to the way conducted His ministry.

(Cristoiglesia) As we can see from Scripture when our Lord was arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane he was defended by St. Peter who cut off the ear of the guard. He recommended that the disciples take weapons to defend themselves. But, Jesus being God willingly sacrificed Himself. The Pope has no such mission on earth but is instead the prime minister and shepherd to Christ’s flock. He certainly trusts the Lord but it would be wrong for Him to tempt the Lord with foolishness. One of the Popes has already been shot and it is a fact that the world hates the Church as it hated Christ and there are those who would be happy to murder the Pope. You do not know much about the Pope’s circumstance… he lives in the warehouse district on the top floor in an apartment that until recently has a leaking roof and the furnishings out of the 50’s. He does not live in the splendor your prejudice imagines. The Pope owns nothing. He is a humble servant of our Lord.

(Sylvia C) “Besides when Christ gave up the ghost. He said "It is finished" what do you suppose He meant by that?”

(Cristoiglesia) The chronology of what happened on the cross was very important as the sacrifice of the cross was the completion of the Old Covenant Passover. The one final sacrifice of the cross completing the temple sacrifice with the continuous sacrifice of the Mass. It started in the Upper Room and is completed on the cross offering pure love to the father for all times. Let us look at the chronology:

Jesus says on the cross according to St. Mark….”My God, My God, why have you forsaken me” and then according to St. John the only disciple that was there Jesus said, “I thirst”. St. John then records that Jesus then said, “It is finished”.

To understand this we have to go back to what happened at the last supper when Jesus said according to St. Mark, “I tell you the truth, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink again in the Kingdom of God.” He did not drink the last cup which is called the cup of consummation then so the Passover Seder would not be completed or consummated until the last moments on the cross when indeed His Kingdom come. This would be very odd not to complete the Passover Seder to His disciples who surely would have noticed that the obligation was not completed to the Father. It would be completed on the cross.

When Jesus said….”My God, My God, why have you forsaken me” he was not taking on the sin of the world as Protestant exegetes usually interpret but was instead giving up His humanity. It was His human nature that was forsaken and not His divine nature which was about to enter into the Kingdom or the New Covenant with mankind. He said then according to St. John….”I thirst” and then from a hyssop branch, which was the same as the branch that spread the Lamb’s blood on the door posts of the Israelites that saved their first born sons, a sponge with sour wine was put to Jesus’ lips. This was the drinking of the last cup of Passover called the cup of consummation which instituted His kingdom and the New Covenant with mankind and the end of the Old Covenant with Israel with the words, “it is finished (consummated)” meaning the Old Covenant.

(Sylvia C) I wish you would answer my questions, Is it because you dont have any answers?

(Cristoiglesia) There is not a single question that you have asked that I have not answered.

(Sylvia C) “What do you think of this. I was deeply troubled by the ecumenical movement, as I lived in pretty dominant catholic village, but am protestant.

It trouble me deeply as the catholic found fault with the protestant woman and came and told me. So I laid it before the Lord Himself. I went to sleep and dont know whether I was awake or not, but I heard this voice like no other voice I have ever heard before. It said "Truly Truly I say unto you, one of you will betray me"

I said "Is it I Lord?" and the answer came "The hand that feeds my bread"

Now who is the hand that feed His bread, His bread being the Word,

Now the pope did quote Jesus's Word. "that they all may be one as thou Father art in me and I in Thee, that they also maybe one in us." John 17 verse 21.”

(Cristoiglesia) It is Christ’s mission to not only shepherd His flock but also to seek unity as this is Christ’s stated will. Christ’s Church represents the opposite of the confusion of Protestantism with its tens of thousands of divisions and each individually thinking that they teach the truth but instead simply teach those man-made doctrines that satisfy one’s itching ears. Jesus said that His Church the Catholic Church will never fall into apostasy and is forever the “pillar and foundation of the truth” according to the Bible.

(Sylvia C) “So who is that the Lord accused of betraying Him? remember Judas Iscariot also betrayed Christ for money, as he stole from the poor. His heart was not right with the Lord God. In the morning whether still in a dream but I did wake up and went down stairs and the queston came up in my heart which I asked through my spirit. "Does the church believe it is the savior of the World?" and once again the voice came such a tender voice, which said "So Eve believed and ate the apple" Now tell me what do you think of this vision and tell me once again that the roman catholic church does not believe it is the savior of the world.

(Cristoiglesia) The Church does not teach that it is the Savior of the world but instead it teaches that Christ is the Savior of the world. Do not be swayed by evil spirits that come to you in a vision or a dream to deceive you. Clearly this spirit from the darkness was deceiving you with its lies.

(Sylvia C) “Now it opens up other questions did Eve believe she was saving Adam, and they both fell from grace?

(Cristoiglesia) No, Eve acted out of pride and believed that she too could be like God if she ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge. As a result she disobeyed God and man fell from grace as a result.

 (Sylvia C) “No church can change the hearts of mankind, except Christ alone, and unless one makes room for the Word which christ spoke into ones heart, then how can one be saved? After all did not Peter say when Christ asked him if he was also going to leave? And Peter replied, "To whom shall we go, Thou hast the Words of eternal life. Therefore the Word is the Bread of life, as Christ is the Word which became flesh. never mind praying for me , pray for your own church, as I know that I am one of Christ's sheep as He has shown me.”

(Cristoiglesia) Truly it is the Holy Spirit that gives sufficient grace to come to faith by appealing to the law written on all men’s hearts. Therefore all men are prepared to receive the truth of God’s Word. Truly it is the Church that has the Words of eternal life. Only in His Church can we fulfill His commandment to eat His Body and drink His Blood which Christ taught is the food for eternal life. Without it a person has no life in them. I do pray for Christ’s Church and as I am called I pray earnestly for those outside of His Church who face the danger of not enduring to final salvation lacking the grace necessary to endure and to win the race for which we all have hope. God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph