(Christian Skeptic) “We have already addressed the
Catholic misunderstanding of James 2 AD NAUSEUM. I'm not going to keep
explaining it if you won't engage with it.”
(Cristoiglesia) The fact is that there is no “Catholic
misunderstanding” of James 2. The fact is that the Catholic understanding is
the authoritative understanding according to Scriptures. Christ gave all
authority for teaching to the Church and the Bible promises that that authority
will forever be within the Church and free from any error. I understand that
out of prejudice alone you desire that the plain meaning of James 2 be
different and support your man-made doctrine but the truth is that it stands as
a contradiction to your obvious exegetical error in regards to whether faith
alone is evidence of justification which it clearly is not throughout the
Scriptures. God’s grace does not only bring one to faith alone but continues
that faith through one’s lifelong journey to sanctification culminated at
judgment at the completion of our earthly existence.
(Christian Skeptic) “I do follow the teachings of the
Church.”
(Cristoiglesia) No, you clearly do not but instead
protest not only the authority of the Church but its infallible teachings. If
you followed the teaching of the Church you would not be outside of its unity
and consequently God’s will who prayed that we be on within His Church. He
prayed for unity and not the division caused by heretics like Calvin who
preferred humanism over the teaching of the Church and labored to change the understanding
that man is created to serve God to one that says that God is obligated to
serve man. You follow private personal interpretations in defiance of biblical
teaching and instead reject the authority of the Church given by Jesus to
shepherd His flock and lead all people to the fullness of truth.
(Christian Skeptic) “Romanism is the one that strayed
from the Church.”
(Cristoiglesia) Again you embrace the private
interpretations of men and reject the authority of the Church. Jesus said that
the Church would never fall into apostasy stating that the gates of hell will
never prevail against the Church. You seem to defy this teaching by saying that
Jesus lied and that the gates of hell did indeed prevail against the Church. I
do not know if you come to this conclusion because you think that Jesus lied or
that He was misquoted by the biblical writer but I believe that the Bible is
God’s inspired truth and does not contain the errors that you obviously
believe. Jesus was competent in establishing the enduring Church that the Bible
says will for all times be the “bulwark and foundation of the truth”. Your disagreement
and Calvin’s does not change the truth taught by Jesus about His Church and its
enduring authority.
(Christian Skeptic) “Calvin taught Augustinianism.”
(Cristoiglesia) Such a claim as this is absolutely
absurd. Certainly it can be supported that Calvin plagiarized from the teaching
of St. Augustine but only to create some credibility for his heretical works. The
central theme for all of St. Augustine’s teaching on soteriology is that man’s
liberty to accept and respond to salvific grace or reject it is central and
fundamental in God’s plan for salvation. Calvin taught that man is incapable of
any liberty and is either predestined to receive and respond to salvific grace
or is not predestined to receive the grace necessary for salvation. On these
fundamental approaches to the understanding of God’s plan for salvation Calvin
and St. Augustine are diametrically opposed to one another. According to St.
Augustine God allows man to either rise from depravity or fall into damnation
freely by his own will. God’s will remains that all men may be saved according to
their own will.
(Christian Skeptic) “If Calvin is a devil, then so was
Augustine. Rome considers Augustine a Doctor of the Church. So you condemn your
own religion.”
(Cristoiglesia) Calvin is the tool of the devil by his
efforts to twist the teaching of God and of one of the great doctors of the Church
into a caricature of the actual teaching to support his humanist desires in
which Calvin labors to depict God as being less that just and far from loving. The
Church does not teach Calvinism and St. Augustine did not inspire such nonsense
as you claim.
(Christian Skeptic) “Augustine taught double
predestination just as Calvin (Enchiridion chap. 100) and his doctrine of
election was identical (see "On the Predestination of the Saints.")”
(Cristoiglesia) St. Augustine was a very prolific writer
and over the life of writings he did over time come to even greater understandings
as his writings matured along with his maturity and faith. He built upon
previous writings and many times expounded on teachings that he later thought
would be misunderstood. A reasonable person should not take excerpts from his
writings in an eisegetical attempt to support their own beliefs for this is not
the purpose of his writing but instead he created works so that one could learn
from what he wrote instead of twisting it into a meaning that he never endorsed
or taught. This is exactly what you are attempting to do here. The truth is
that the theme of St. Augustine’s writing is that God does not interfere with
the ability of man’s will to rise above his depravity or fall from God’s grace.
The teaching of St. Augustine is clearly that God desires that all be saved but
not at the exclusion of his just nature that gives man the ability to elect by
the freedom of their will to be among those saved by God’s grace. God is all
loving and does not create men to be condemned into an eternity in the
damnation of hell.
(Christian Skeptic) “You assume that the Church in the
Bible is your church.”
(Cristoiglesia) Of course I do as it is supported by all
sources whether the Bible, history or the writings of the Church fathers. Only
by the greatest ignorance can one conclude and assume that the Church is not
what these sources confirm. There simply is no reliable evidence to the
contrary which makes such a conclusion implausible and unreasonable.
(Christian Skeptic) “This seems to be an idea fixed in
many Catholics' minds and they can't think outside of that.”
(Cristoiglesia) There is no reason for us to “think
outside of that” as there is no real evidence to the contrary.
(Christian Skeptic) “ Your church is not the church
spoken of in Scripture.”
(Cristoiglesia) Be at least somewhat reasonable here….The
biblical writers of the New Testament were all Catholic Christians as there
were no others called Christian in the first century. The Catholic Church
exercised its authority from Christ to canonize the Christian Bible in the late
4th and early 5th centuries. The entire New Testament is
about the Church and its relationship with Christ. How can anyone even imagine
that the teaching can be referring to any other than the true enduring Church
today called the Catholic Church? Where is their evidence and surely where is
their logic to such an impotent, unsupportable conclusion?
(Christian Skeptic) “ Your church disagrees with
Scripture and the doctrines of the Early Fathers. Clement of Rome, for
instance, taught sola fide in Corinthians chap 32. Similarly, Chrysostom taught
sola fide in his commentaries on Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians.”
(Cristoiglesia) I am not sure of the quote you refer to
of St. Clement but here are the commentaries of St. Chrysostom and St.
Augustine:
"All indeed
depends on God, but not so that our free-will is hindered. 'If then it depend
on God,' (one says), 'why does He blame us?' On this account I said, 'so that
our free-will is no hindered.' It depends then on us, and on Him For we must
first choose the good; and then He leads us to His own. He does not anticipate
our choice, lest our free-will should be outraged. But when we have chosen,
then great is the assistance he brings to us...For it is ours to choose and to
wish; but God's to complete and to bring to an end. Since therefore the greater
part is of Him, he says all is of Him, speaking according to the custom of men.
For so we ourselves also do. I mean for instance: we see a house well built,
and we say the whole is the Architect's [doing], and yet certainly it is not
all his, but the workmen's also, and the owner's, who supplies the materials,
and many others', but nevertheless since he contributed the greatest share, we
call the whole his. So then [it is] in this case also.” John Chrysostom, Homily
on Hebrews, 12:3 (A.D. 403).
"Now for the
commission of sin we get no help from God; but we are not able to do justly,
and to fulfill the law of righteousness in every part thereof, except we are
helped by God. For as the bodily eye is not helped by the light to turn away
there from shut or averted, but is helped by it to see, and cannot see at all
unless it help it; so God, who is the light of the inner man, helps our mental
sight, in order that we may do some good, not according to our own, but
according to His righteousness." Augustine, On Forgiveness of Sins and
Baptism, II:5 (A.D. 411).
"'No man can
come to me, except the Father who hath sent me draw him'! For He does not say,
'except He lead him,' so that we can thus in any way understand that his will
precedes. For who is 'drawn,' if he was already willing? And yet no man comes
unless he is willing. Therefore he is drawn in wondrous ways to will, by Him
who knows how to work within the very hearts of men. Not that men who are
unwilling should believe, which cannot be, but that they should be made willing
from being unwilling." Augustine, Against Two Letters of the Pelagians,
I:19 (A.D. 420).
"Most bitter
enemies of grace, you offer us examples of ungodly men who, you say, 'through
without faith, abound in virtues where there is, without the aid of grace, only
the good of nature even though shackled by superstitions.' Such men, by the
mere powers of their inborn liberty, often merciful, and modest, and chaste,
and sober. When you say this you have already removed what you thought to
attribute to the grace of God: namely, effectiveness of will ... If it pleases
you so much to praise the ungodly that you say they abound in true virtues - as
though you did not hear the Scripture saying: 'They that say to the wicked man:
You are just, shall be accursed by the people by the people, and the tribes
shall abhor them' - it were much better for you, who say they abound in
virtues, to confess that these are gifts of God in them." Augustine,
Against Julian, 4:3:16 (A.D.421).
"As strong as
we could, we urged on them, as on your and our brothers, to preserve in the
Catholic faith, which neither denies free will whether for a bad life or a good
one, nor allows it so much effect that it can do anything without the grace of
God, whether to convert the soul from evil to good, or to preserve and advance
in good, or to attain eternal good, where there is no more fear of falling
away." Augustine, Epistle 215:4 (A.D. 423).
"[L]est the
will itself should be deemed capable of doing any good thing without the grace
of God, after saying, 'His grace within me was not in vain, but I have laboured
more abundantly than they all,' he immediately added the qualifying clause,
'Yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.' In other words, Not I
alone, but the grace of God with me. And thus, neither was it the grace of God
alone, nor was it he himself alone, but it was the grace Of God with him. For
his call, however, from heaven and his conversion by that great and most
effectual call, God's grace was alone, because his merits, though great, were
yet evil." Augustine, On Grace and Free Will, 5:12 (A.D. 427).
"'There is
henceforth laid up for me,' he says, 'a crown of righteousness, which the Lord,
the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day.' Now, to whom should the
righteous Judge award the crown, except to him on whom the merciful Father had
bestowed grace? And how could the crown be one 'of righteousness,' unless the
grace had preceded which 'justifieth the ungodly'?" Augustine, On Grace
and Free Will, 6:14 (A.D. 427).
"'I have
fought,' says he, "the good fight; I have finished my course; I have kept
the faith.' Now, in the first place, these good works were nothing, unless they
had been preceded by good thoughts. Observe, therefore, what he says concerning
these very thoughts. His words, when writing to the Corinthians, are: 'Not that
we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves; but our sufficiency
is of God.'" Augustine, On Grace and Free Will, 7:16(A.D. 427).
"The first man
had not that grace by which he should never will to be evil; but assuredly he
had that in which if he willed to abide he would never be evil, and without
which, moreover, he could not by free will be good, but which, nevertheless, by
free will he could forsake. God, therefore, did not will even him to be without
His grace, which He left in his free will; because free will is sufficient for
evil, but is too little s for good, unless it is aided by Omnipotent Good. And
if that man had not forsaken that assistance of his free will, he would always
have been good; but he forsook it, and he was forsaken. Because such was the
nature of the aid, that he could forsake it when he would, and that he could
continue in it if he would; but not such that it could be brought about that he
would." Augustine, On Grace and Free Will, 11:31 (A.D. 427).
"And besides,
this is the apostolic declaration, "No one saith, Lord Jesus, but in the
Holy Spirit: and who is it that calleth Him Lord Jesus but he that loveth Him,
if he so call Him in the way the apostle intended to be understood? For many
call Him so with their lips, but deny Him in their hearts and works; just as He
saith of such, 'For they profess that they know God, but in works they deny
Him.' If it is by works He is denied, it is doubtless also by works that His
name is truly invoked. 'No one,' therefore, 'saith, Lord Jesus,' in mind, in
word, in deed, with the heart, the lips, the labor of the bands,--no one saith,
Lord Jesus, but in the Holy Spirit." Augustine, On the Gospel of John,
74:1 (A.D. 430).
"For just to
keep any from supposing that the branch can bear at least some little fruit of
itself, after saying, 'the same bringeth forth much fruit,' His next words are
not, Without me ye can do but little, but 'ye can do nothing.' Whether then it
be little or much, without Him it is impracticable; for without Him nothing can
be done." Augustine, On the Gospel of John, 81:3 (A.D. 430).
(Cristoiglesia) Surely you are misunderstanding the
teaching of the fathers and of the Church.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
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