24 August, 2014

Discussion with someone who calls herself "Knowbible"

My commentary and response is in bold:

“If you had a problem; why didn't you go to God in prayer?”

What makes you think that I did not pray to God?

“Message: It seems strange when you had a problem with the Movarian; that you went to your colleagues instead of God himself.”

What gave you the idea that I did not not pray about the situation?

“ It seems through all this mess that Satan deceived this situation; yes it seems that you believe the Catholic Church is correct,”

Of course the Catholic Church is correct. The Bible does not lie when it calls the Church the “pillar and foundation of the truth”. Jesus said that His Church would endure for all times free from apostasy. He prayed that we have unity in the Catholic Church. Why would He pray for unity in His Church if the Church is not “correct”.

“but what if everything you was taught was untrue---not correct?”

What would I do? Are you suggesting that I go to God and tell Him that He lied about His Church? Are you saying that perhaps He prayed for unity so that we would all be deceived? As a Christian that is not a plausible conclusion to reach. How could Jesus’ words be untrue and anyone have faith in Him? I trust Jesus and His teaching and so should you.   

“How would you know if you didn't go to God in the first place to ask Him where His church is instead of assuming it's the RCC or ask God if your beliefs were true as show His truth to you?”

He told us where His Church is in the Bible and it is the Catholic Church. That is undeniable. It is true that the Church wrote the New Testament of the Bible and canonized the entirety of the Christian Canon under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that Jesus said would lead us to all truth in His Church. Why would anyone not believe the words of Christ and the Bible. I am not assuming anything but following Jesus’ desire for unity and belief in His Word. I do not see how He could have revealed His will any better than what is recorded in Scripture. But yet there are people like you who doubt His teaching and follow false teacher instead that satisfy your itching ears for fables and false teaching. That is more difficult to understand than someone who is faithful to His own Church. Why would anyone trust a man-made counterfeit sect over the Church founded by Jesus and the apostles? That is the more difficult question to answer. To me it is more reasonable to do God’s will than to do the will of man. It is as if some reject Christ and His teaching and simply follow false teachers and their counterfeits to what Christ founded. Perhaps you can explain why a counterfeit, man made sect has seduced you into error?

“The RCC is a universal church and not a "little flock", in the future it is known the true saints will be killed in which the RCC calls "heretics" like as this was in the past.”

What? Are you trying to convince me that those who reject the will of Jesus are the “true saints”? You are speaking absolute nonsense now. Is this just wishful thinking to encourage and give credibility to your apostasy.

“I have showed how RCC took the 2nd commandment out and changed the 4th commandment to Sunday worship--”

No, you did not. What you did was make an allegation without any basis in fact.

“-You have admitted Catholics worship Sunday because Jesus was resurrected that day, but have also said that Catholics accept the Biblical Sabbath Saturday which I don't really believe they do.”

We worship everyday and at all times. The Eucharistic celebration is never ending until He comes again fulfilling the prophecy of Malachi 1:11. As you know , Jesus came to fulfill all prophecy as this is an example.

“ Yes the same commandments of Exodus is in Deuteronomy, but in the Catholic Catechism---the 2nd commandment is left out?”

No, the Church does not leave out any Commandment of God.

“OK to prove this theory, one question----What is the 4th commandment”

The Bible gives us at least three versions of the Decalogue. The two most similar are Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. The third version is very different which is Exodus 34:12-26. The latter version is the one which the Bible refers to as the The Commandments or Decalogue. The first set were destroyed by Moses and the second set are the ones in Exodus.

To make things a little more difficult is the fact that Jesus gave us three different versions of the Commandments found in the New Testament. They are found in  Matthew 19:18-19, Mark 10:19 and Luke 18:20. The it actually gets even more difficult when we realize that none of them were numbered or punctuated originally. So any attempt to number them with any veracity is an exercise in futility because we can never know the intent of the order based on Scripture. Suffice it to say that they are all God’s Commandments and must be honored as such regardless of any man made order we subscribe to them. The fact is that the original writers inspired by God chose not to number them.  

“I have proven the RCC false in many areas and have seen how they have twisted verses”

Really? So you think that the Bible is false teaching when it calls the Church the “pillar and foundation of the truth”? that destroys your credibility as a person with Bible knowledge with any authority to teach others. Which, by the way, according to the Bible the Church is the only teaching authority given by Christ.

“remember I was in Babylon Confusion twice, so I know how churches and people can brainwash to make you believe in something strongly, but in reality it's not that way even though they perceive it that way.”

Well, from where do you get any authority to come to such conclusions that contradict the teaching of Jesus. Your statements become suspect when you use terms like “Babylon” in a context that shows that you do not understand the biblical teaching about “Babylon”. Babylon universally in the Bible refers to Pagan Rome and not the Church. And, again the Bible calls the Church the “truth” which you deny to your own destruction. You forget that I am a Bible translator and you're claiming the Bible, when it disagrees with your man made doctrines is false, is not a convincing argument at all to me.

“(2) Re: Is people's perception flawed? (Prov.14:12)”

It can be but according to Scriptures the Bible is not for personal interpretation but instead it is the Church that is the foundation of truth of Scriptures. As you continue to demonstrate it is your perception that is quite flawed.

“RCC, why do you believe it's true when the scriptures say otherwise?

The Scriptures do not say otherwise but instead gives all teaching authority to the Church.

“RCC believes in Sunday Worship, Trinity, Birthdays, Immortal Soul, Secret Rapture, etc, but doesn't Protestants too?”

Yes, we believe in continuous worship at all times until Jesus comes again fulfilling the prophecy of Malachi. We believe in the Trinity as that is not only the teaching of Jesus and the Church but the Bible also. Yes, we do believe that people have birthdays that are recorded each year of their life. Certainly the biblical teaching is that the soul is immortal and we believe this. I do not know what you mean by a secret rapture but the Church does not teach the rapture. I guess not all Protestants believe the same as you are testimony to being the spawn of Protestantism in spirit and reality.

“Don't these Protestants follow these RCC teachings; would you consider them to be the daughters of the RCC?”

When their teachings and beliefs are the same a Christ’s Church then they are following truth but none but the Catholic Church have the fullness of truth and practice.

“ What about the majority following these doctrines; what does the Bible say about it?
Rev.17:5 = "And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth."
Matthew 7:13 = "Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby."

As I have revealed to you before “Babylon” in the Bible always refers to Pagan Rome and never to the Church. The “narrow gate” according to Scripture is the Church where all must pass to be saved. Non-Catholic Christians are are the ones following the broad way to destruction according to Scripture.

“Perception Flawed?
People say once you die, you go to heaven------OK where is this in the Bible?
For instance: I can prove this wrong in many ways with scriptures from the Bible.”

(2 Cor 5:8) Yes, for those who are in Christ.

“Jesus plainly states in John 3:13, "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of man who is in heaven." Yet, most of the Christian world believes that immediately upon death a person's soul goes off to heaven.”

Yes, Jesus through His sacrifice atoned for humanities original sin of the Garden of Eden and opened the gates of heaven for all who are in Christ. Upon our death Christ followers who die in a state of Grace are immediately in God’s presence in Heaven. There is no such thing as the nonsense of soul sleep or other  unbiblical musings of the fate of the soul in Christ.

“David was a man of God's own heart, but didn't Peter say in Acts 2:29,34 = ". . . he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. . . . For David did not ascend into the heavens . . ."

His body did not ascend to heaven for only the soul resides in heaven and not a physical body.

“(3)What happens when one dies? (Bible Answer)
Message: "For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. . . . Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going." (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)”

My expertise is the Old Testament. Surely it was the prevailing view of those of this time thinking that the dead are no longer capable of thinking, acting or having joy of any kind (9:6, 10) and that they are quickly forgotten by those still living (2:16). Essentially the state of death is almost no existence at all. Qoheleth is sharing the common belief of his time or is speculating about death. He reveals to us the limits of reason but not the actual circumstances in regards to the departed souls. It is through revelation to the Church that we learn the fullness of truth about our eternal destination whether the particular or the universal judgments, the resurrection of the body, heaven and hell respectively.

“Jesus Christ made it plain that Death was called a "sleep". Isn't that why people put on the grave plaques "Rest in Peace"?”

The body sleeps but the soul is eternally alive in one of two eternal destinations. The soul is alive in heaven or in hell.

"These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead." (John 11:11-14)”

Jesus used a euphemism for biological death. Jesus made it clear that he would not awaken from death on his own. Indeed He was raised from the dead by Jesus.

“Matthew 9:24 = "he said, Give place: for the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn."”

Jesus raised her from death as well.
“What is a "soul"? {One's mind/consciousness is made up in a person.}

Gen.2:7 (KJV) = "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." @{Also can see ASV version and Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA) which says "living soul".}”

The “soul“ is the eternal part of our being that goes to heaven or to hell for eternity.

“Gen.2:7 in NIV says "living being"

@Equation Form
Body + Breath = Living Soul
Body + Spirit = Living Soul”

This is what we call imagery...it gives us the image of a potter shaping a vessel out of clay (Job 10:9,Isa 45:9). Let us look at the wordplay in Hebrew here... “man” ( ‘adam) and the ground ( ‘adamah) from which he is made (Sir 33:10). The creation of man out of dirt or clay is an ancient motif paralleled in Egyptian (Great Hymn to Khnum) and Mesopotamian literature ( Atrahasis Epic:Gilgamesh Epic.

(Dust) is the symbol of human mortality ( Gen 3:19)

(breath of life) This represents the principal of animation making man a living creature like the animals.(2:19,7:21-22). man is created unique in that we are both matter and spirit. We posses not only a body but a rational soul (Wis 15:11). We find these same parallels in Egyptian texts ( Instruction for King Merikare; Great hymn of Aton).

Adam was not just created with natural, biological life but was also infused with supernatural life of grace nd of holiness. Accordingly, from his first breath, Adam was “upright” (Ecc. 7:29) “son of God” (Luk 3:38).

(5) What are the 3 heavens mentioned in the Bible?
Message: 1st heaven: firmament or expanse of heaven where the birds fly and where the clouds give rain.
Genesis 1:26, Gen.2:20, Gen.8:2, 1Kings 18:45”

Gen.2:20 Lexham English Bible (LEB) = "And the man[a] gave names[b] to every domesticated animal and to the birds of heaven[c] and to all the wild animals.[d] But for the man there was not found a helper as his counterpart.[e]"

1Kings 18:45 (ESV) = "And in a little while the heavens grew black with clouds and wind, and there was a great rain. And Ahab rode and went to Jezreel."

2nd Heaven refers to outer-space where the sun, moon and stars are found.
(Gen.22:17, Exodus 32:13, Joshua 10:13)

Gen.22:17 (KJV) = "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

3rd heaven is called God's abode that often designated as the "heaven of heavens" = Joshua 2:11, Psalm 11:4, 2Cor.12:2 equated with verse 4 "paradise".

The Bible is not calling all three of these heaven. The first two illustrate God’s creation for man. The third is from everlasting to everlasting as is God.

Many religions won't stop here to be satisfied with the Bible's answer that Elijah didn't go to heaven, so they site Mark 9:2-10 to insist that Elijah went to heaven. Let's take this story to another part of the Bible in Matthew 17:1-9. Doesn't it say in Matthew 17:9 that the transfiguration was a vision? Matthew 17:9 = "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead." Now what was this vision about? It's actually really simple! Moses represents the one's that have been dead and are in the grave while Elijah represents the one's that are alive at Jesus's coming; the one's in the grave sleeping will rise first at Christ's coming and the one's that are alive will be significally changed (1Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1Corinthians 15:51-54).

It seems that I proved without a doubt that Elijah was placed somewhere on the earth as I proved that the transfiguration was a vision. It seems there is no evidence of Elijah going to heaven; this is just man's carnal teachings that are not found in the Bible!!!!

(6) Elijah---did he go to heaven?
Message: 1Kings 18:45 says wind is in the sky (1st heaven).

@Was Elijah taken up by a whirlwind in 2Kings 2:11?

Now I ask you which heaven would this be? Wind would only lift him into the atmosphere--the 1st heaven. Did Elijah's disciples think he had been taken to the heaven of God or did they want to try to look for him somewhere on the earth as stated in 2Kings 2:16? As getting further into the story; it acknowledges this event took place when Jehoshaphat was 53 years old when Jehoram the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria the eighteenth year of Jehoshaphat's reign (See: 2Chronicles 20:31 & 2Kings 3:1; Caculate 35 +18; it reveals that Jehoshaphat was 53 years old at that time).

Then in 2Chronicles 21:1; it is noted Jehoshaphat died and Jehoram his son reigned in his stead. {*Note: Don't get the two Jehorams mixed up; one was the son of Ahab while the other is Jehoshaphat's son.} Now look at this in 2Chronicles 21:12 = "And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah."

Re: What is spirit?
Message: According to Bible: do we have mortal souls "subject to death"? Doesn't
Christ has to raise dead bodies when He comes back to earth?
1Cor.15:51-57 & 1Thess.4:13-17

What is "Spirit"? @Spirit = breath.

Eccl.12:7 (KJV) = "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Eccl.12:7 Lexham English Bible (LEB) = "And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it."

Psalm 146:3-4 says: "Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help. His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; in that very day his plans [thoughts, KJV] perish."
All throughout this I have been citing scriptures, but you keep saying I have man's teachings; how could that be when RCC's & Protestants have men's teachings---I will prove it further.

About Elijah---don't Catholics & Protestants say He went to heaven???

OK, how did their perception make them think this way? Does the Bible really say this or does it say he was placed on the earth somewhere else.
Before we go into this story: we need to know certain things such as the story of the 3 heavens mentioned in the Bible

2Samuel 18:9 = "And Absalom met the servants of David. And Absalom rode upon a mule, and the mule went under the thick boughs of a great oak, and his head caught hold of the oak, and he was taken up between the heaven and the earth; and the mule that was under him went away."

I am not a theologian so my personal opinion would have very little authority. Here is a link to a writing by Father William Saunders that explains this is great detail:



“The Truth be known is that Mary was a sinner and only Jesus Christ was sinless.”

I have already given you the biblical teaching that proves that through your prejudiced eisegesis that you are reading into Scripture things that are not taught. In other words you are adding to Scriptures to satisfy your ignorant prejudice. At least now you are admitting that there is at least one exception to “all have sinned” which indicates that you are admitting that this is the general state of humanity and not literally “all”. The Bible also includes the blessed mother and John the Baptist that the Bible says are exceptions besides Jesus.

“The Catholic Church cannot accept this Truth from God then how can the Catholic Church say its the True Church? It cannot.”

We say the Catholic Church is the true Church because it is the only Church founded by Jesus that has His promises that it will NEVER fall into apostasy as you claim. It is true because it is the only Church given the Holy Spirit to protect it from error. It is the only Church mentioned in the Bible and is called the pillar and foundation of the truth. Jesus even prayed to His Father the day of His crucifixion that all who are His be in unity in His Church and not in the confusion of the more than 40,000 man-made counterfeits to what Jesus has founded. Of course I know that your heart is seared to the truth and you will certainly not believe me if you do not believe Jesus , His Church or the Bible.

“This is why God removed His children from the Catholic Church long ago.”

No, according to Scripture the Protestants like yourself removed yourselves from the Church because you cannot endure sound doctrine. This is prophesied and you are an example of that prophecy as you prefer the false teachers that satisfy your itching ears instead of the truth from Jesus , His Church and the Bible. I was once lost in a false, man-made sect like you.   

“There is only one True Church and it is Jesus Christ. All those who have received Salvation are in the True Church. Therefore i am in the True Church and have no need to listen to or accept the false doctrines the Catholic Church is teaching.”

As you are indicating you have a false understanding of salvation by proudly and arrogantly proclaiming that you have received salvation. Salvation is a future event that the Bible says we must endure in our faith to be saved at our final judgement which we all will face someday. It is true faithful believers that will be saved through His Church the Catholic Church. Without His Church there is no salvation.

“How can you know the Truth if you are listening to lies from the Catholic Church? You cannot.”

“The Truth is only from God the Holy Spirit, not from you or the Catholic Church.”

What you claim is NOT  the teaching of Jesus but your own truth from your prejudice and disobedience. Your pride comes before destruction.

“Its a shame that the teachings from men mean more to you than the Truth from the Holy Spirit. But Jesus Christ has told us that people will walk away from sound doctrines to listen to deceiving spirits.”

The teachings of men in their own man-made sects that they call a church is not by any stretch of the imagination the truth. It is not from the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit calls all men to His Church and not these more than 40,000 counterfeits all teaching their doctrines of me and not of God. They represent confusion and not the unity that Jesus prayed for to His Father. The Holy Spirit protects the Church and according to the Bible only the Catholic Church has this teaching authority and the sound doctrines from the Holy Spirit.

“Like i said before there are no rewards in Heaven for teaching Mary was sinless. Do the Will of the Father to receive rewards in Heaven instead of the works of the Catholic Church that will give you no rewards.”

I doubt that Jesus will be pleased by your attitude about His mother when you stand before Him in judgement. May He have mercy on you for your refusal to be one in His Church and your attacks on His mother.
God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph

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