17 June, 2013

Transubstantiation and the Real Presence by Matt Slick of CARM



(Matt Slick) “Transubstantiation is the teaching that during the Mass, at the consecration in the Lord's Supper (Communion), the elements of the Eucharist, bread and wine, are transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus and that they are no longer bread and wine, but only retain their appearance of bread and wine.

The "Real Presence" is the term referring to Christ's actual presence in the elements of the bread and the wine that have been transubstantiated.

Paragraph 1376 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) states,

    The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation (CCC, 1376).

Because they are the presence of Christ himself, Catholics worship and adore the elements.”

(Cristoiglesia) Correct, it is fitting that we worship our Lord when in His presence.

(Matt Slick) “The Mass contains a series of rituals leading up to the Lord's Supper which also contains a reenactment of the sacrifice of Christ.  Furthermore, transubstantiation states that the substance of the elements are miraculously changed, even though their appearance is not. In other words, the bread and wine will appear as bread and wine under close scientific examination, but the true substance is mystically the Body and Blood of Christ.  Synonymous with transubstantiation is the doctrine of the Real Presence.  Where transubstantiation is the process of the change, the real presence is the result of that change. In other words, the doctrine of the real presence states that the bread and wine contain the actual presence of Christ in bodily form as a result of the process of transubstantiation. Roman Catholicism states that the incarnation of Christ itself, where Jesus was a man but contained an invisible divine nature, is analogous to the the doctrine of the real presence.

Some of the verses used to substantiate this teaching are the following:

    Matt. 26:28, "for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins."
    John 6:52-53, "The Jews therefore began to argue with one another, saying, How can this man give us His flesh to eat? 53 Jesus therefore said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.'"
    1 Cor. 11:27, " Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord."

Can we conclude from the above verses that the Communion Supper actually involves the change of the elements into the mystical Body and Blood of Christ?  Let's take a look.
First - there is no indication that the words were meant to be literal”

(Cristoiglesia) Of course there is no indication that the words of Jesus are not literal or that they are symbolic or metaphorical.

(Matt Slick) “No where in scripture do we find this teaching.   We see scriptures refer to the elements as the body and blood, but we also see Jesus clearly stating that the words He was speaking were spiritual words when talking about eating his flesh and drinking his blood:  "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life," (John 6:63).  He did not say they were literal words; that is, He did not say that they were His actual body and blood.”

(Cristoiglesia) Now you are coming to a ridiculous conclusion. Jesus has just commanded His followers to eat His flesh and drink His blood and then states that to do so is to no avail or a waste of time. Why would Jesus command them to do something that would be pointless? He did not and you are trying to twist the interpretation away from the Catholic understanding in a most ridiculous way. There is no indication that Jesus was speaking symbolically or metaphorically but just the opposite in His colloquy of John 6 at Capernaum which emphasized the literalness of His teaching. He said that we must “gnaw” on His flesh and such a mental image produced is not one of symbolism or metaphor. This was the preparation for the understanding of the “Last Supper” so that they would indeed know that what He was offering to them was His actual Body and Blood under the appearance of bread and wine.

(Matt Slick) “But, a Catholic might object and say that Jesus clearly said, "This is My blood..." and "This is my body..." This is true, but Jesus frequently spoke in spiritual terms:  "I am the bread of life," (John 6:48); "I am the door," (John 10:7,9); "I am the resurrection and the life," (John 11:25); "I am the true vine," (John 15:1), etc.  In the context of John 6, Jesus is telling His disciples that they must eat His body and blood (John 6:53).  He clearly says He was speaking in spiritual terms, "...the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life," (John 6:63).”

(Cristoiglesia) There is no parallel between Jesus saying “this is my Body, this is my Blood” because with the metaphors it is possible that they can have a symbolic sense. His Body and His Blood have no symbolic sense because Flesh is nothing like the bread and the wine is nothing like His blood in a metaphorical sense.

(Matt Slick) “Second - the elements of the communion supper were still referred to as bread and wine

After The institution of the communion supper, both the elements were still referred to as bread and wine.

"And while they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body." 27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. 29 "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom," (Matt. 26:26-29).

After Jesus said, "This is my blood," (Matt. 26:28), he said, "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Fathers kingdom," (Matt. 26:29).  Why would Jesus speak figuratively of His blood as "the fruit of the vine" if it was his literal blood?  He called it wine.”

(Cristoiglesia) He was referring to its appearance and not its essence which is its intrinsic quality was defined and explained at the colloquy at the synagogue in Capernaum as His literal Body and Blood.

Matt Slick) "For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it, and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 25 In the same way He took the cup also, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup," (1 Cor. 11:23-28).

If the elements were changed and were really bread and wine, then why does Paul refer to the element of bread as bread and not the literal body of Christ?”

(Cristoiglesia) Jesus speaks not only of the appearance but of the reality. He says This is my Body, this is my blood. Each time He is showing them the bread and the wine. He says do this in  “anamnesis” of me. “Remembrance” as it is translated into English is a very awkward translation for this word in Koine Greek. The translators are doing an approximation of the meaning which does not mean to recall something from the past into memory but instead to make, in this case, the future present or in the case when we observe this Sacrament it is to make the past present. It is a divine miracle that the disciples witnessed as it is when we experience it at Mass. The Body and the Blood spoken of here is the actual Body and Blood sacrificed on Calvary. This is confirmed by St. Paul in his letter to the Corinthian congregation telling them that unless they discerned (recognized) the reality of the Body and the Blood in the bread and the wine then to receive it is to bring condemnation on them. In other words how can one be condemned for not recognizing a metaphase or a symbol.  The truth is that such an assumption would be ridiculous.

(Matt Slick) “Third - there is no indication the disciples thought the elements changed’

There is no indication in the biblical accounts of the Last Supper that the disciples thought that the bread and wine changed into the actual body and blood of Christ.  Are we to believe that the disciples who were sitting right there with Jesus, actually thought that what Jesus was holding in his hands was his literal body and blood?  There is no indication that they thought this.

(Cristoiglesia) I guess you are trying to say that they were not paying attention to Christ’s teaching at Capernaum which was for the purpose of preparing them for this moment. St. Paul was not even there in Capernaum and He wrote that it was indeed the real Body and Blood of our Lord to the Corinthian congregation saying that if they did not recognize it to be real then they are condemning themselves to receive it unworthily. I think that there can be no doubt that they indeed knew of what Jesus was giving them. He said that they must discern this in their spiritual senses and indeed they did.

(Matt Slick) “Fourth - there is no indication the disciples worshipped the elements

We see no indication at all that the disciples worshipped the elements.  The adoration of the Eucharist is practiced during the Mass.  Catholicism says, "Moreover, the Catholic Church has held firm to this belief in the presence of Christ's Body and Blood in the Eucharist not only in her teaching but in her life as well, since she has at all times paid this great Sacrament the worship known as "latria," which may be given to God alone."1 Where is the worship given the sacrament by the disciples anywhere in the New Testament?  It is not there.”

(Cristoiglesia) Your statement here is very confusing in light of Scripture. Are you trying to say that the disciples believed that Jesus is not God and thus refused to worship Him? Did not the prophecy of Malachi foretell of this worship.

 We can see the prophecy of the sacerdotal priesthood of the New Covenant in the writings of the prophet Isaiah. He teaches that in the Messianic Kingdom that priests will be called even from among the non-Jews which sets apart the New Covenant Church from the Old Covenant priesthood.

Isaiah 66:21 (King James Version)
21And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

This priesthood is to fulfill the prophesy of Malachi for a permanent and continuous sacrifice:

Malachi 1:11 (King James Version)
11For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

The following verses refer to the sacrifice of the bread and the wine by Melchisedec which scholars agree is the prototype of Christ. This also refers to the last supper where Jesus orders the repetition of the Mass.

Genesis 14:18 (New King James Version)
18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High.

Hebrews 5:5-10 (King James Version)
5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.


So, it can be and has been said that the Church has received the ongoing sacrifice of our Lord and that as a result there is a sacerdotal priesthood necessarily separate from the priesthood of all believers that offers this continuous sacrifice to the Father of the Eucharist. As a result the priesthood has been changed by Christ and His sacrifice from the Old Covenant priesthood into the one prophesied in Scriptures by the prophets Isaiah and Malachi. So, in conclusion, if the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was a atoning sacrifice for mankind then the priesthood is undeniable the priesthood prophesied and made necessary by Christ. We find this evidence in the colloquy of Capernaum and in the Gospel accounts of the last Supper.

(Matt Slick) Fifth - the supper was instituted before Jesus' crucifixion

The Mass is supposed to be a reenactment of the sacrifice of Christ.  Therefore, according to Roman Catholic theology, the bread and wine become the broken body and shed blood of Christ and are, somehow, the crucified body and blood of Christ..  But how can this be since Jesus instituted the Supper before He was crucified?  Are we to conclude that at the Last Supper, when they were all at the table, that when Jesus broke the bread it actually became His sacrificial body -- even though the sacrifice had not yet happened?  Likewise are we to conclude that when Jesus gave the wine that it became His actual sacrificial blood -- even though the sacrifice had not yet happened?  That would make no sense at all.”

(Cristoiglesia) As I said before you are misinterpreting or ignoring what the Bible says in its original language. Jesus instructed the disciples to do this in “anamnesis” of me which is not a recalling from the past but making the past or the future present.  At the last supper the miracle of our Lord was to make the future present and today Christ in the Eucharist makes the past present. It makes perfect sense in the original Koine Greek and is consistent with Jesus teaching at Capernaum, at the Last Supper and today. It is also consistent with the prophetic teaching of Isaiah and Malachi.

(Matt Slick) “Sixth - the Roman Catholic view is a violation of Levitical law

The Roman Catholic interpretation of the Eucharist requires the participant to eat human flesh and drink human blood.  Remember, Roman Catholicism teaches that the bread and the wine become the actual body and blood of Christ.  Essentially, this amounts to cannibalism.  What does the Scripture say concerning this?

    "For as for the life of all flesh, its blood is identified with its life. Therefore I said to the sons of Israel, You are not to eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood; whoever eats it shall be cut off," (Lev. 17:14).

Notice that the scripture says that you are not to eat the blood of any flesh. It would certainly appear that the Roman Catholic view is in contradiction to the Old Testament scripture since it advocates the eating of the blood of Christ.  To the RCC it is not just symbolic, it is the actual eating and drinking of the body of Christ.”

(Cristoiglesia) Certainly Jesus’ teaching is a violation of Levitical Law which is the Law of the Old Covenant. That is the exact reason that the disciples left Jesus at Capernaum as they recognized that He was indeed telling them that to abide in Him that they must violate this law of the Old Covenant. Even the disciples that stayed said that this is hard teaching and Jesus knowing their minds asked them if they were going to leave also. St. Peter spoke for the 12 saying, to whom shall we go as you have the words of eternal life. He then told them that they must believe Him not in their carnal senses but in their spiritual sense that obviously makes the belief in miracles possible. Certainly they had already been witnesses to His miracles and understood what He said. One does not need to know the specifics of a miracle to recognize it as a miracle. After all miracles are of God and beyond the understanding of our finite intellects. He was saying that they must trust in Him instead of their carnal intellects and reason which would fail them as it did those that left Him never to follow Him again at Capernaum.

Christ indeed not only instituted His Kingdom on the Cross of Calvary but also instituted the New Covenant with Humanity. No longer were the Levitical laws binding on God’s followers and condemning of them. When Jesus said, ”it is finished” the old Covenant was no more and the New Covenant was proclaimed. The Eucharist is the sacrifice of the New Covenant with humanity and does away with the Temple sacrifices. Otherwise, God would not have allowed the Temples to be destroyed.

(Matt Slick) “Some Roman Catholics responded by saying that Jesus had instituted the new and everlasting covenant in which the sacrificed body and blood of Christ was reality. Therefore, because it was a new covenant it was also the sacrificed body and blood. But this cannot work because the new covenant could not yet be instituted until after the death of Christ  as the Scriptures state.

(Cristoiglesia) Nonsense! Again you base your conclusion on the English approximation in translation of “anamnesis” Which does not mean to recall something in the past to memory. What it means is that there is a miracle in which the past or the future is made present.

(Matt Slick” "And for this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, in order that since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it," (Heb. 9:15-16).

Therefore we can conclude that the Levitical law was still in effect because the new covenant had not yet been established. So, the Roman Catholic position would have Jesus himself violating  Old Testament law by having the disciples drink the blood -  If it were literal blood.”

(Cristoiglesia) Again you are teaching nonsense based on improper exegesis. At the Last Supper the future was being made present which was not a violation of Levitical law. Today the past is being made present by Christ’s miracle of anamnesis.

(Matt Slick) Yet another response is that in Mark 7:19 it says, "'because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?' (Thus He declared all foods clean.)"  but the problem with this response is that Jesus with declaring all animals clean to eat.  He  was not saying it was okay to drink their blood. Furthermore, in the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, James the apostle gives instructions and said, "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood," (Acts 15:19-20).  So, well after the ascension of Christ and the establishment of the church, the instruction is still to abstain from drinking blood.”

(Cristoiglesia) What is being spoken of here is the practice of drinking the blood of animals sacrificed to Idols in the Pagan temples. It has nothing to do with the Levitical laws that prohibit the drinking of blood. It is about Gentile converts and not Jewish converts and as a result is a non sequitor argument.

(Matt Slick) Seventh - it is a violation of the incarnation

The biblical doctrine of the incarnation states that the Word which was God and was with God (John 1:1), became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14). This "became flesh" involves what is known as the hypostatic Union.  This is the teaching that in the one person of Christ are two natures: divine and human. That is, Jesus is both God and man at the same time and He will forever be God and man.

Furthermore, by definition, for Jesus to be human He must be located in one place.  This is the nature of being human.  A human male does not have the ability to be omnipresent. He can only be in one place at one time.  To say that Jesus in His physical form is in more than one place at a time, is to deny the incarnation.  That is, it denies that Jesus is completely and totally a man -- since a man can only be it one place at one time.  Therefore, to say that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ is to violate the doctrine of the incarnation by stating that Christ is physically present all over the planet as the mass is celebrated. This is a serious problem and a serious denial of the true and absolute incarnation of the Word of God as a man.”

(Cristoiglesia) The teaching of Christianity is that Jesus is both fully man and fully God. Are you trying to claim that God becoming man at the incarnation was an abdication of the attributes of being God? The incarnation to a Christian is that Jesus has all the attributes of humanity except sin as well as all the attributes of God. Jesus did not give up His divinity to become man and all the attributes of God are present in Christ.

At the incarnation Jesus never ceased to be fully God.

According to the doctrine of the Church in regards to the Eucharist, the Body and the Blood of the God-man Jesus are really, substantially and truly present. It is the true nourishment of the souls of men. The elements are transubstantiated into the Body and the Blood of Christ resulting in a change into an unbloody Sacrifice of the New Testament Church within the New Covenant of God.

The Incarnation does not prevent Christ from fulfilling His teaching In John 6 where we are commanded to abide in Him and Him in us by receiving His blessed Sacrament of His Body and His Blood. How is a symbol like Manna from heaven? How can we “gnaw” (KG-trogo) on His flesh if it is symbolic. Why does St. Paul say that we bring condemnation on ourselves for discerning only a symbol. Sorry, but Nestorianism does not stand the test of Scripture.

(Matt Slick)”But, did not Jesus say in Matt. 28:18-20 that He would be with the disciples always, even to the ends of the earth?  Is this not a declaration that Jesus will be physically present everywhere?  No, this is not what is stated.

The answer is found in the teaching of the Philippians 2:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross..  This is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human nature are ascribed to the single person of Christ.  It does not mean, however, that anything particular to the divine nature was communicated to the human nature. Likewise, it does not mean that anything particular to the human nature was communicated to the divine nature.  It means that the attributes of the divine nature are claimed by the person of Christ.  Therefore, Jesus is omnipresent, not in His human nature, but in His divine nature.

To make this more clear, let's look at some verses that illustrate the communicatio idiomatum:

    John 17:5, "And now, glorify Thou Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was."
    John 3:13,"And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man."

Please notice that in these two verses, Jesus lays claim to the glory that He had with the Father before the foundation of the world.  He also claims to have descended from heaven, but how could these be true since He is a man?  The answer is because the attributes of the divine nature are claimed by the person of Christ.  Therefore, the person of Christ could claim to have glory with the Father and could claim to descend from heaven.  But we know that the man Jesus, in the flesh, did not exist until His conception.  Furthermore, this means that the two natures of Christ are distinct, yet they are in Union in the one person of Christ (the hypostatic union).  It further means that the attributes of the divine and the attributes of the human are not transferred to one another -- the divine does not become localized and the human does not become infinite.  If this were the case, then the nature of the divine and the nature of the human will be violated. Therefore, we can see that for Jesus to be a man, He must retain the attributes of humanity.  This means that He must be localized and it means He cannot be physically omnipresent. If He were, by definition He would not be a man. But the Roman Catholic position is that the bread and wine become the actual body and blood of Christ and this violates the doctrine of the incarnation.  Therefore, transubstantiation cannot be the correct teaching of Scripture.”

(Cristoiglesia) I see that you are a disciple of the Nestorian heresy as was your Protestant predecessors Zwingli and to a lesser extent Calvin. The Fact is that Jesus Commanded that we eat His Body and drink His Blood and He demonstrated this to His disciples after the teaching at Capernaum during the Last Supper. He said unambiguously, “This is my Body, This is my Blood”. There was no symbolism in these words as there was no symbolism in the words at Capernaum. The Christian belief that Jesus is fully man and fully God does not violate the fact that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist and in the Tabernacles and Monstrance’s of His Churches


(Matt Slick) Eighth - the Lord's Supper is not a sacrifice of Christ

The Bible tells us:

    "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified, (Heb. 10:10-14).

In the Roman Catholic Mass, there is a sacrifice of Christ.  In other words, in the ceremonies, is a reenactment and an actual sacrifice of Christ per the Mass.  This is an obvious contradiction to the Scriptures which teach us that Christ died once for all and that by the one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.  It does not state in the Word of God that the sacrifice of Christ must be repeated in order to forgive us of our sins or somehow help us to maintain our salvation by the infusion of grace.  The fact that Christ died once and the sacrifice occurred once, is proof that it is sufficient to cleanse us of our sins.  We connect with the sacrifice of Christ by faith, not by a ceremony.

(Cristoiglesia) Through the miracle of anamnesis the Eucharist is not a recalling of Calvary. It is not a remembrance of Calvary. Instead, it is the one, same sacrifice with the real Christ as the victim and priest that transcends time and place as the heavenly feast of His real flesh which is the food to endure to final salvation for all mankind. At every Mass we eat the same flesh of our Lord that He served at the last supper and we who abide in Him will continue for all times.

John6

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

(Matt Slick)Conclusion

It should be obvious to anyone who believes the word of God, that the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation is not biblical.  For the reasons listed above, we urge that Roman Catholics recognize that Jesus Christ died once for all and that there is no need to participate in a ritual where His re-sacrifice is practiced.

(Cristoiglesia) We do not participate in any ritual that is a re-sacrifice of our Lord. We participate in the same sacrifice of our Lord to the Father.


(Matt Slick) Finally, because the sacrifice of Christ was once for all, it is sufficient to save us and we do not need to maintain our salvation by our efforts or by our participation in the Lord's supper.  It is not a means of grace that secures our salvation or infuses into us the grace needed that then enables us to maintain our salvation by our works.  Instead, we are made right before God by faith.

(Cristoiglesia) You are not suggesting that Catholics actually go against our teaching by believing that it is by works that we are saved. The fact is that the Church has condemned the heresy that you accuse us of which is Pelagianism. Following God’s Commandments to participate in His Sacraments indeed impart grace so that we can endure to final salvation. As Jesus said through the Sacrament of the Eucharist the grace of God is imparted to us so that we can abide in Him and Him in us. Following God’s Commandments is not a work but a Christian sign of devotion to our Lord. Faith indeed secures our initial salvation and the ongoing graces of the Sacraments allow us and encourage us to endure to final salvation. The “faith alone” that you promote is condemned in Scripture as “dead faith”.

  (Matt Slick)  "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus," (Rom. 3:24).
    "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).
    "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
    "For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith," (Rom. 4:13).
    "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).
    "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved," (Rom. 10:9).

(Cristoiglesia) The only place that “faith alone” is mentioned in scriptures is when it is condemned in the book of James. Martin Luther the author of “faith alone” regretted this doctrine later on in life and questioned his salvation because of introducing this error into Christianity. This Protestant doctrine is truly a doctrine from hell.

Many people, like yourself, seem to think that all they have to do is in a moment of emotion and/or reason ascent to recognition of Christ being their savior and their salvation to eternal life is assured. From that point forward it makes no difference that their life is changed and they will live differently. The only thing that has changed is that evil in their lives as displayed outwardly and lived inwardly no longer has an effect on their eternity as their one act of acceptance has made them immune to the actions of their sins at judgment and obligated God to accept them into His presence. Some will go so far as to say that one's sinfulness and evil has nothing to do with the value of their souls before God because even the most evil, sinful soul is covered rather than purified by Christ's atonement. It would appear that these people are saying that Christ's atonement is a method or sinister plan to allow sin in the presence of God draped in a covering of righteousness to conceal the evil within and that salvation is assured regardless of the state of their souls.

The question comes immediately to mind, how one can come to such conclusions considering the context of the body of Scriptures that contradict such a notion. I believe that it all comes down to one verse which is unique in all of Scripture that depicts Christ as a personal savior dependent on one’s inner conviction. All other Scriptures depict only salvation through the Church saying that He died for us, meaning the Church. St. Paul certainly taught this as he practiced seeking salvation through Christ's Church.

Here is the Scripture which through the eisegesis of some causes misunderstanding:

(Gal 2:20 DRB) And I live, now not I: but Christ liveth in me. And that I live now in the flesh: I live in the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and delivered himself for me.

Some take this verse to mean that one need only repent and turn to God with the heart of a little child and their salvation is assured.

(Joh 3:3 DRB) Jesus answered and said to him: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Catholics see salvation quite differently than those who think that covering one’s sins is enough to enter the presence of God. We recognize that Christ has redeemed us on the cross and unlocked the gates of heaven and that redemption is not the same as salvation but instead a prelude to salvation. In order for us to receive salvation we must cooperate by being spiritually alive. Our soul cannot be in a natural state when we die to receive salvation and no covering of its sinfulness will be enough to hide what is beneath, a soul without the sanctifying grace cannot enter heaven. If, at death, the soul is sanctified then there is no doubt of heaven even if that soul needs to go to the purification of purgatory. Only souls that are indeed good and pleasing to God by being full of His sanctifying grace will merit heaven. It is the state of the soul at death that merits heaven and this fact emphasizes why we need God’s ongoing grace in our lives to persevere to the end. God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

10 June, 2013

Discussion with Eli Soriano about his erroneous depiction of the Catholic Mass


[Eli Soriano is the founder of the Church of God International and a critic of the Catholic Church. This Church is primarily in the Philippines but is growing as a result of its constant attacks on Christ's own Church. Many are deceived into this false man-made sect that is vehemently anti-Catholic. They do not have a Trinitarian belief in God but instead believe that Jesus is subordinate God to God the Father and was never a man]

(Eli Soriano) “The Mass is one of the many invented doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church! It is regarded as the Sacrifice of the Eucharist and is the central act of worship of the Catholic Church. Let us see how they define “mass” and “eucharist” first.

MODERN CATHOLIC DICTIONARY (MCD)

MASS. The Sacrifice of the Eucharist as the central act of worship of the Catholic Church. The “Mass” is a late form of missio (sending), from which the faithful are sent to put into practice what they have learned and use the graces they have received in the Eucharistic liturgy.

As defined by the Church at the Council of Trent, in the Mass, “The same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross, is present and offered in an unbloody manner.” Consequently, the Mass is a truly propitiatory sacrifice, which means that by this oblation “the Lord is appeased, He grants grace and the gift of repentance, and He pardons wrongdoings and sins, even grave ones. For it is one and the same victim.………………

EUCHARIST. The true Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, who is really and substantially present under the appearances of bread and wine, in order to offer himself in the sacrifice of the Mass and to be received as spiritual food in Holy Communion.(MCD)

According to the above definitions of the MCD, the Mass is the offering (again and again) of the true body and blood of Jesus Christ! Imagine that! This is contrary to the teachings of the Bible!”

(Cristoiglesia) It is truly unfortunate that you cannot understand the teaching of Scripture because of your obvious prejudice against the Catholic Church which is truly Christ’s own Church according to the Bible.

The ongoing celebration of the Mass is very different from the Passover celebration in that it is not a recalling of a one time event but a continuing sacrifice with Jesus as the priest and the victim. We are not celebrating this to recall what we have read or been told but are really and actually at the foot of the Cross with the blessed mother and St. John. In the Bible it says that we are to do this in “remembrance” as it is often translated into English but that same word in Koine Greek is actually “anamnesis” which has no English equivalent. “Remembrance” is a rather crude and awkward approximation in English of the true meaning of “anamnesis” which denotes a miracle. It is instead the actual miracle of the past of the future being present. In this case the past is being made present in the Eucharist.  Recalling something to memory is hardly a divine miracle. So, there is clearly a difference between the ongoing practice of recalling the bondage of Egypt and the command of our Lord to “do this in “anamnesis” of me which we do in the one miracle of the Eucharist. Jesus provides the great feast of His actual Body and Blood in exactly the form, time and place at the foot of the cross as He said. It is completely recognizing the fact that we discern His Body and Blood in the Spirit of faith as He said and not by our human carnal reason as heretics struggle to do.

In John 6:51 Jesus says that He is the bread from heaven. He is not talking of a huge loaf of bread which all believers must partake but makes it clear that it is His actual flesh that brings life eternal and not a recalling or remembrance of His flesh. Obviously this is a miracle not unlike the miracle of His feeding the multitudes before. The disciples would have believed because they had just witnessed a similar miracle. Also His relating this feast to manna (John 6:49-50) illustrates its temporary sustenance and contrasts it to the enduring nature bestowed by eating His flesh.

“51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

Surely if this was a remembrance or recalling only it would necessitate a killing of another lamb which would not be the self same sacrifice but another symbolic of the first whose blood spread on the entrance to their homes with the hyssop branch saved their first born sons. It was this Old Covenant celebration that necessitated the ongoing sacrifice of the temple which was the only place that the lambs could be slaughtered because only the priests could kill the Passover lamb in remembrance of the real and original sacrifice. It is significant that St. John records, since He was the only one of the Gospel writers present that, Jesus was killed at the exact same time of the representative Paschal lambs at the Temple. This indicated a new ongoing sacrifice once for all times of the New Covenant.

The Eucharist is not a recalling of Calvary. It is not a remembrance of Calvary. Instead, it is the one, same sacrifice with the real Christ as the victim and priest that transcends time and place as the heavenly feast of His real flesh which is the food to endure to final salvation for all mankind. At every Mass we eat the same flesh of our Lord that He served at the last supper and we who abide in Him will continue for all times.

John6

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
" The protestant revelation was that we ingest the WORD of God by faith! Just as Jesus said to his disciples -John 15:3 "You are ALREADY clean because of the word I have spoken to you" -later, John 17:17 he prayed the Father "Sanctify them by the Truth, your word is Truth."

In instituting the practice of the Mass, Jesus fulfilled the prophesy of Malachi:

Malachi 1:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.



(Eli Soriano) When the Lord Jesus Christ offered Himself in the cross, with the intent of redeeming the sins of mankind, He offered a sacrifice whose effect is both retrogressive and progressive. He did it once for all – and once forever! So why should that sacrifice be represented in material things like bread and wine that is taken over and over?

HEBREWS 10:10, 12 (KJV)

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;

HEBREWS 10:10, 12 (GOOD NEWS BIBLE)

10 Because Jesus Christ did what God wanted him to do, we are all purified from sin by the offering that he made of his own body once and for all.

12 Christ, however, offered one sacrifice for sins, an offering that is effective forever, and then he sat down at the right side of God.

HEBREWS 10:10, 12(LATIN VULGATE)

10  in qua voluntate sanctificati sumus per oblationem corporis Christi Iesu in semel

12 hic autem unam pro peccatis offerens hostiam in sempiternum sedit in dextera Dei

HEBREWS 10:10, 12(DOUAY-RHEIMS VERSION)

10 In the which will, we are sanctified by the oblation of the body of Jesus Christ once.

12 But this man, offering one sacrifice for sins, for ever sitteth on the right hand of God,

HEBREWS 10:10, 12(REVISED STANDARD VERSION)

10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,

I cited various translations of the Scriptures above, (even those officially accepted by the Catholic Church) to prove that when Christ offered Himself as a sacrifice for sins, He offered it once for all and once forever!

The sacrifice of the Eucharist in the Mass of the Roman Catholic Church is clearly against the Bible because such sacrifice is unnecessary and thus constitutes an insult. It grossly disregards what the real Jesus had done in Calvary.

Even the Father will not agree to the idea that His Son is being sacrificed over and over again!
(Cristoiglesia) Through the miracle of our Lord of anamnesis we, meaning the whole Church Militant, Suffering and Triumphant, participate in the one sacrifice for the salvation of all men. Your straw man of multiple sacrifices is a false depiction of the Mass. It is one sacrifice that is sufficient in all time and in all places in which we participate.

(Eli Soriano)
HEBREWS 9:24-26

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Note the connotations of the following:

…..“Nor yet that he should offer himself often”

……“For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world”

…….“but now once in the end of the world”

All these imply that it is not God’s will that His Son be continually sacrificed – much more in a daily manner like the daily sacrifice of the Mass of the Roman Catholic Church!

No loving Father would want to see a beloved Son being killed and sacrificed daily!”

(Cristoiglesia) Again you labor to build your straw man to attack which is a false depiction of the Mass. Christ died once for all and that is what we participate in at Mass. It is not a re-sacrifice but the self-same sacrifice as was prophesied by Malachi..

(Eli Soriano) And why is it necessary for anybody requesting a priest for a Mass to pay a particular fee? The sacrifice made by Jesus did not involve money! The sacrifice being officiated by Catholic priests are paid for with a fixed amount of money!

(Cristoiglesia) It is not necessary to pay a fee for the dedication of a Mass but is instead voluntary.

God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

Response to Eli Soriano in regards to His criticism of St. Peter being the prime minister appointed by Jesus



[Eli Soriano is the founder of the Church of God International and a critic of the Catholic Church. This Church is primarily in the Philippines but is growing as a result of its constant attacks on Christ's own Church. Many are deceived into this false man-made sect that is vehemently anti-Catholic. They do not have a Trinitarian belief in God but instead believe that Jesus is subordinate God to God the Father and was never a man.]

(Eli Soriano) “The teaching that Peter was the rock upon which the church was built surely came from either an ignorant mind, or a polluted one.

Matthew 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

(Cristoiglesia) This teaching came directly from Christ so in what way do you think that Jesus was ignorant or had a polluted mind when He taught these things?

(Eli Soriano) ”I hate to base my explanation on grammar, because it is not what I believe as the bastion of truth, but simple knowledge in grammar may help us see the way to logical truth.

If Peter was the rock:
1. Then it should have been “thou art Peter, and upon you I will build my church”
2. Or “thou art Peter, and upon this rock, which is you, I will build my church”
3. Or “I say unto thee, that thou art Peter, a rock, and upon you I will build my church”

(Cristoiglesia) What you are ignoring here in your attack against the Holy office ordained by Jesus personally is that this is a name change for the disciple named Simon. In Scriptures name changes are significant in that in this case Jesus changes the name of Simon to “rock” or in the Koine Greek Petros which in English is spelled Peter. When Jesus changed Simons name to Peter or Rock He was referring to the enduring office being fulfilled of the prophecy of Isaiah in Isaiah 22. We can also see the example of the parable of the “wise builders”:

Matthew 7:24-27 (KJV)

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Obviously, reading the Scriptures without prejudice, clearly teaches that St. Peter is indeed the “Rock” that Christ intended as Jesus in His construction vernacular makes St. Peter not only one of the 12 foundation stones but also the prime minister among the 12. Historically this appointment without exception has been recognized within the Church and the apostolic succession of the bishops as the first among equals with the special appointment as the first to hold the Holy office of prime minister that Christ ordained. This teaching is part of a greater teaching of our Lord about the Church where Jesus teaches that He is the cornerstone of the Church; St. Peter is His prime minister and one of the foundation stones of the Church and the 12 disciples are the foundation stones built upon through apostolic succession.

My commentary on Isaiah 22 is as follows:

Certainly in Matthew 16 Jesus is referring to the prophecy of Isaiah in Isaiah 22 and in doing so He is fulfilling the prophetic imagery prophesied by the prophet Isaiah. The prime minister referred to by Isaiah is a type for the appointment of St. Peter to be the leader, steward and authority over His family or household. It further emphasizes by Christ’s actions in His appointment that He, Jesus, having received the throne of David by virtue of His Father is asserting His claim to the throne of David and as the rightful successor as king of all of Judah and Israel. He fulfills this by asserting the legal precedent necessary to fulfill prophecy and appoints St. Peter as the steward over His kingdom. He is claiming by this action what He came to do which was to establish a new and enduring Covenant with His Kingdom. But was this Kingdom fully established at this time or was it just a stepping stone to the establishing of His Kingdom in His appointment of St. Peter in Matthew 16? Certainly, the time had not yet come for the Prime Minister, St. Peter, to exercise the power of the keys for Christ had not yet revealed His glory or made claim to His kingdom with the establishment of the New Covenant. This would not happen until Calvary where Jesus would from the cross drink of the cup of consummation from the hyssop branch and then utter the words, “it is finished” after which He gave up His Spirit and His glory was revealed. He would finish His redemptive work three days later when He raised from the dead. Only then was all prophecy fulfilled and the law satisfied. St. Peter was now endowed with the Authority of Christ to be the royal steward over Christ’s kingdom. So great was this authority that He had the authority to bind or loose on earth as well as in heaven and became the spiritual father of Christ’s family. The keys represent the supremacy of the power bestowed on St. Peter and he is fastened on a peg and carries the weight of maintaining the King’s (Christ’s) house. So great are the parallels between Eliakim and St. Peter that it is implausible to deny that Eliakim is a type for St. Peter. The new kingdom is not a kingdom of land and of a people but it is the establishment of a spiritual kingdom of God and not of men. Keeping with the typology the office of Eliakim was an enduring office and so too is the office that St. Peter to which he has been appointed. Only the prime minister holds the keys of supreme authority and not only the first among equals but the special and singular authority among the disciples and visible head of the Church.

Let us look directly at the parallels between Isaiah 22 and Matthew 16.

The prime minister in David’s household had successors:

Isa 22:15, 1 Kings 4:6, & 18:3, 2 Kings 10:5, 15:5, 18:18

We see the full authority given to the prime minister:

Isa 22:22, Mat 16:19, Rev 3:7

Further teaching of the authority of the prime minister:

Mat 24:45, Luk 12:42, Gen 41:40, Gen 43:19

(Eli Soriano) “Aware of the way the Lord Jesus Christ constructed sentences throughout all His sessions of teaching, we will not, in our wildest dreams, think that the Lord Jesus has a propensity of ungrammatical and nonsensical statements.”

Take for example the Sermon on the Mount.

MATTHEW 5:1-12
1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

The foregoing sermon can be considered scholarly constructed with utmost literary style and beauty.

No learned scholar can accuse the Lord Jesus Christ of speaking nonsensically nor ungrammatically at any instance in the Holy Scriptures!”

(Cristoiglesia) Again, Jesus calling His disciple St. Peter is a name change and as such the only proper grammatical understanding is that St. Peter is the rock that Jesus proclaims. Otherwise the statement of Jesus would make no sense grammatically or logically.

(Eli Soriano) “Biblically speaking, Peter cannot be the rock upon which the church was built, simply because he was part of the church, built upon the foundation stone who is Christ.

EPHESIANS 2:20-22
21 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto a holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God through the Spirit.

The Apostles (one of whom was Peter) were built upon the foundation, Jesus Christ himself. There is no other foundation than Christ!

I CORINTHIANS 3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”

(Cristoiglesia) Actually Eph 2:21 says that Christ is the cornerstone which separates and excludes this stone from the rest of the foundation. Christ is set apart as the cornerstone and Jesus speaking in Mat 16:18 is setting St. Peter apart from the other 12 foundation stones when He makes Him His prime minister and in doing so fulfills the prophecy of the coming Messiah by the prophet Isaiah. This is just one more example of Christ fulfilling all things as He came to do.

In Ephesians 21-22 it speaks about this foundation being built upon through apostolic succession of which the book of Acts records.

Obviously, you are ignoring a great deal of biblical teaching to support your prejudice against Christ’s own Church and justify your own disobedience to His Church. God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph