07 November, 2009

Discussion with "Jehoel disciple of Jesus" about his contempt for the Church

(Jehoel disciple of Jesus) You are not the first person to twist the Scriptures and you will not be the last person to do it.

(Cristoiglesia) Where in the Bible does it give you the authority to interpret Scriptures? The fact is that the Church is the only body with the authority from Christ to interpret Scriptures as the Bible teaches that the Scriptures are Not for private interpretation.

2 Peter 1:20 (King James Version)
20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Jesus gave all authority on earth to His Church and central to this authority is the teaching of the Church as the Bible states is the “Pillar and foundation of the truth”. The Church is described in the early Church as those who are gathered in obedience around the bishop by St. Ignatius of Antioch in about the year 107AD. Certainly the Church used this authority to write the New Testament books and to canonize them in the African Synods in the late fourth century and earl fifth century under the leadership of the great doctor of the Church St. Agustin and the authority of Pope Damasus I.

(Jehoel disciple of Jesus) God does not need Mary’s help in the salvation of sinners. God has the power to do it by Himself and does not need a created being to help Him. The truth is Mary is still dead in the grave.

(Cristoiglesia)Certainly God is all powerful and can do all things but the fact is that God chose to use the blessed mother of God to bear the Savior of the world. The Bible clearly states that this is no accident but that she was chosen and played an important part in the salvation of man and the defeat of Satan:

Luke 1:26-56 (King James Version)
26And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

39And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;

40And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

45And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

46And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

47And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

50And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

51He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.

52He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

53He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

54He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

55As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

56And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.

The blessed Mother of God is certainly not dead in Christ or in a grave as you suggest but has been assumed into heaven by her Son and protected from the corruption of the flesh at death. If the blessed mother of God is not in heaven then there is no hope for mankind to receive salvation.

(Jehoel disciple of Jesus) Will your believing that Mary is helping God effect your salvation? Maybe, but why take the risk of losing your salvation over a myth?

(Cristoiglesia) Believing in the truth is not risking salvation but instead assuring it. The blessed Mother bearing the Savior of the world is not a myth but instead it is truth.

(Jehoel disciple of Jesus) What you are doing is teaching a different Gospel.
Galatians 1 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

If teaching a different Gospel does not effect your salvation it would have a big effect on your rewards on heaven.

(Cristoiglesia) The Gospel to me means the revelation of Jesus in regards to redemption which is contained in the following Scriptures:
Matthew 9:35 (King James Version)

35And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 24:14 (King James Version)
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 1:14 (King James Version)

14Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Mark 13:10 (King James Version)

10And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
Mark 16:15 (King James Version)

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Acts 20:24 (King James Version)

24But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Romans 1:1 (King James Version)

1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Romans 1:9 (King James Version)

9For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Romans 1:16 (King James Version)

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:16 (King James Version)

16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

These verses describe the Gospel I preach from God’s written Word. Where do you disagree with the teaching of God’s written Word and why? Since this describes the true Gospel it must be you who teaches a false Gospel.

(Jehoel disciple of Jesus) Would it not be better to teach the true Gospel that we received from God instead of a man made Gospel that comes from a false church?

(Cristoiglesia) Well let us see if your question makes any sense coming from you. You are a member of a sect in protest of what Jesus and the disciples founded with Jesus Himself as the cornerstone and the 12 disciples as the foundation stones. You are estranged from His Church by choice and prefer a man-made counterfeit of what Christ founded. You call Christ’s creation a false Church while promoting your doctrines of men against the Scriptures I provided which are written by Catholic Christians recording the teaching of Jesus Himself about the meaning of the Gospel. How can anyone give you any credibility for such a stance in testimony of your disobedience to God’s will when Jesus prayed to His Father that we all be one in His Church as He and the Father are one. So, in answer to your question, yes it is better to teach the true Gospel that is contained in His Church instead of the man-made pretenders.

(Jehoel disciple of Jesus) Repent and turn back to the true Gospel that Jesus gave us. We do not need to have our ear’s tickled by myths and false teachings. Do those good works of God that brings rewards in heaven for us instead of the works of Satan that have no reward in heaven!

(Cristoiglesia) The true Gospel was given to His enduring Church which can only be the Catholic Church as it is the only Church founded by Jesus and the disciples and the only Church that endures today fulfilling Jesus’ promise to mankind. It is the Protestants who most resemble Jesus’ teaching about those who would no longer be able to endure sound doctrine and would seek out those who satisfy their itching ears like false teachers like Charles Stanley, David Koresh, Jim Jones and Benny Hinn. Before them there were the Secular humanists John Calvin and Ulrich Zwingli who desired a God who served man instead of the orthodox Christian God that man served instead. They changed the Gospel to suit their Humanist ideals. Unity in Christ’s Church is not the works of Satan but instead this describes the disunity of the 30,000 + Protestant sects.

(Jehoel disciple of Jesus) Your church is full of lies from Satan. How can you say that Jesus built a church that has lies in it?

(Cristoiglesia) The Bible says that the Church is the “Pillar and foundation of the truth”. The Bible prophesizes and warns about the falling away of some for the teaching of “false teachers” and “ravaging wolves” into heretical sects like yours.

(Jehoel disciple of Jesus) You say your church is the only true church yet you make mary the Queen of heaven. That doctrine is so false its straight from the pit of hell.

(Cristoiglesia) That argument is with God and not I. It was God who chose the blessed mother to bear the God/man. He is the King of Israel and of Heaven. In Judeo-Christian tradition that means that the mother of the King is Queen. Therefore to claim she is not Queen denies the titles of the Son.

(Jehoel disciple of Jesus) Then there is your doctrine you have to be baptized first before you can receive salvation. Even Dr. Charles Stanly says that doctrine is straight from the pit of hell.

(Cristoiglesia) Charles Stanley has no authority from our Lord to teach anything. That authority lies only with Christ’s Church. So it should not matter to any Christian what is Charles Stanley’s opinion. The bible says the following about Baptism:

John 3:3-5 (King James Version)

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

I think one should follow the true teacher which is Jesus rather than Charles Stanley.

(Jehoel disciple of Jesus) All your church does is lie. There is no truth in your church. You need to repent of your evil ways and return to Jesus. Return to the true gospel that Jesus gave to us, cast aside the false teachings from the pit of hell

Repent and ask Jesus to open your eyes so you can see the real truth from God and not the lies of Satan that has infiltrated your church over the centuries.

(Cristoiglesia) You say that Christ’s Church lies and lacks truth yet you cannot identify a single lie. In doing so you attack the very promises Jesus made to humanity about His Church such as it being the enduring Church for all times that will never fall into apostasy and will remain for all times the “pillar and foundation of the truth.” Clearly it is you who has departed from Jesus by seeking out the teachers of false doctrines to satisfy your itching ears. I repent of my sins regularly but it is not necessary for anyone to repent from being in God’s will by being in His Church. Satan has infiltrated the invisible Church through the false and heretical teaching of Protestantism like Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide and “Once saved always saved” which are all doctrines of devils separating and causing divisions in the Corpus Christi. But, Christ’s Church remains true and is the ark of humanity from a sinful and seductive world. God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

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