30 September, 2013

Discussion with one calling them self "CrownedOne" claiming more authority than the Church

(MY writing is in bold print)

“When you have a defense that has an excuse for every question, and a man who doesn't want to see past what he believes is he only truth; his mind is closed and therefore cannot be penetrated with truth, or anything.”

Yes, the fullness of truth is impossible to refute and as the Bible says the Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth” in all its fullness. If i had a closed mind as you claim I would have never become a Catholic. I am a former anti-Catholic and came to the truth of Christ’s Church by trying desperately to prove the Church to be in error. I found instead that the Church is without error.

“Sincerity is no garuntee for truth. You may sincerely believe all the lies and defenses taught to you; but I don't need it defend my church or the word of God, because it's truth and stands alone without defense.”

First to make such an accusation you must have some proof that there are some lies that have been taught to me. Otherwise your accusations are empty except for their hateful prejudice against anyone that does not accept your disobedience to Christ’s Church. Jesus founded only one Church and regardless of what sect you belong to that is not the Church He founded and as a result it has no authority from Christ to believe or teach anything to anyone. Your opinion does not equate to the truth no matter how devoted you are to self deception. You have absolutely no authority to decide what is the truth outside of His Church which has this authority directly from Christ.

“If you don't want to see past what you think you know, I cannot give truth to you.”

It does not matter what I think but whom I believe and I believe only Christ, His Church and the Bible. You are representing none of these reliable sources. Before you can teach anyone anything you must show where your authority to do so comes. According to the Bible only Christ and His Church has any teaching authority. Your personal opinions do not carry any of the weight for a reasonable person as to the veracity of these other sources that deny authority from any other source.

The Lord has not departed from me, and we are well aquatinted.
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (John 17:14-17 KJV)”

Jesus is praying the night before His arrest and subsequent crucifixion that all of those who are His have unity in His Church, the Catholic Church as He founded no other. Are you ignoring the context of these words to support or justify your disobedience to His Church? By not being obedient as is His clearly stated will in John’s writing puts you outside of those that John is recording that Jesus prayed to have unity. Your own statements belie your claims of being well acquainted with Him and His Word.

“He also said sanctify them through the truth of the word, which you wield according to the doctrines of men and not the will of God.”

Do you have any evidence of your claim?

“You're basing your truth from the church alone, not the word. Your church overrides and interprets the word as it pleases and covers it in doctrine and defenses, as the church is "infallible".”

The truth is based on three divine sources of which must be in perfect accordance without contradiction which are Jesus, the Church and the Bible. Therefore the Church contains the fullness of truth as the bible says the Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth”. Only the Church, according to Scriptures, has the authority to interpret the Bible and to teach truth. The Church is infallible in the declaration of doctrinal truth. Obviously the Bible needs an infallible teacher to lead all to the truth. The Bible tells us that that infallible teacher given to the Church is the Holy Spirit received at Pentecost which leads the Church to all truth corporeally. Individually we may err in the truth but the Church cannot lest Jesus be a liar and the Bible false teaching.

“There is no bible verse that states the church is infallible; but the bible does say, the word of God is truth and that every man is a liar.”

As I said the Bible clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit given at Pentecost prevents the Church from error. I assume by your statements that you are not admitting to be liar even though you reject this biblical teaching. I suppose that you may be norant of what the Bible means by the “Word of God”. St. Paul explains to us that the Word of God is Christ Himself and encompasses not only that which is written but also those truths that are taught orally. He said to hold fast to those Sacred Traditions we received as a Church orally as well as those traditions received in writing. Sola Scriptura is a Protestant heresy and not the teaching of Scripture.

“Unless we speak the word of God, every word that we speak is a lie. You have done very little weirdo of the word and much wielding of church doctrine and fl we claims to infallibility.”

As you have just revealed you are ignorant of what is the Word of God. Are you just refusing to accept St. Pauls teaching. By what authority do you refuse the teaching of God’s Word. I suspect you are giving yourself this authority. There can never be any contradiction between any of the three sources of truth that I have explained to you. The Church cannot teach doctrinal error lest Jesus be a liar and the Bible false teaching. Is it your desire to destroy all of the veracity of the sources of truth to humanity which is Jesus, His Church and the Bible?

“Jesus told the Pharisees this because they acted the way the Catholic Church acts currently:
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. (John 8:42-50, 54, 55 KJV)
You hear not the words of God but only your doctrines from unsound places.”

Well the conclusory statement is certainly not about the Church that Christ founded which is undeniably the Catholic Church as all historical, biblical and patristic evidence testify. So whom can we say these verses speak of but those who do not hear His word and are not obedient to the only authority that Christ left on earth.  The Bible prophesies that there will be those who cannot endure the sound doctrines of Christ’s own Church. It says that the will seek out and follow false teachers who satisfy their itching ears. From your statements you have revealed yourself to be one of those prophesied about in Scriptures. The Bible further teaches that at judgement unless you repent that you will hear from Christ, “depart from me I never knew you”. This path you have chosen is the wide way to destruction unless you repent and be obedient to God’s will that we have unity in His Church instead of the confusion and disunity represented by the protestant heretics each with some measure of truth and great error. To be in God’s will is to be in His Church of which all who are saved will be on that last day. God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph  

6 comments:

  1. I am not sure if 1 Timothy 3:15 supports the conclusions of the Roman Church.As pillars and foundations are needed to support large structures, the Gospel is needed so that not even the gates of hell can prevail against the Church. Mt. 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. Jn. 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. We do say that this Church exists but not exclusively in Rome under the Pope.The Church is truly believing and righteous people scattered throughout the whole world. We add the marks: The pure teaching of the Gospel and the Sacraments. This Church is properly the pillar of the truth....for it keeps the pure Gospel as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

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  2. Without the Church how is the true Gospel to be spread? If the truth is to be known it must be the teaching of the Church as this is the source of truth that Jesus established.

    Surely the Church is an identifiable entity with the Pope as its prime minister and apostolic succession as its foundation.If you are speaking of the invisible Church then such a Church is known only to God but the Catholic Church is the visible entity established by Jesus personally that is the shining city on a hill that cannot be hidden. This is what the Bible speaks of when it says that the Church is the "pillar and foundation of the truth". What good is a source of truth if it cannot be known or clearly identified. Otherwise, any entity can claim the truth and instead of a unifying truth there would be confusion and thus division. Jesus prayed that such confusion and division would not occur but that unity in His own Church would be the symbol and the reality of truth in teaching and practice. That is the Catholic Church. So, this "pillar and foundation of the truth does indeed exist in all places and times as the Catholic Church as there can be no other sharing in the veracity of Christ who was not the author of division but of unity. Protestants do indeed try to lay a new foundation founded on the facts that they cannot endure the sound doctrines of the Church but without the veracity of Christ's authority given to His Church they lack the fullness of truth, faith unity and practice that is His desire for all that is His. Their is no devotion in disunity but such is an exercise in disobedience while keeping some elements in truth the fundamental truth of Christianity is that Jesus is God and the 2nd person in the Trinity of one God. Protestants as a result reject the true foundation laid by Christ and instead embrace the man-made counterfeits of the world.. God bless!

    In Christ
    Fr. Joseph

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  3. I have a question about a an answer you gave the guy. Why do you continue to list the church before the Bible? It just seems odd?

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  4. I list it according to the hierarchy of authority given and taught by Christ. Christ is the ultimate authority and as a result he gave His authority for teaching to His Church. The Church exercised that authority by writing the New Testament and canonizing the Christian Canon. God bless!

    In Christ
    Fr. Joseph

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  5. You're telling me that the church wrote the Bible not God. What about 2 Timothy 3:16. The man was only the instrument or vessel even the tool if you was to simplify it to write it down. But God in the Holy Spirit used those great men to write it.

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  6. Yes, of course but the authors of the Bible were inspired by God. Yes, the Church has always been the the source for humanity for the fullness of God's truth. The writers of the New Testament without exception were Catholic Christians. God bless!

    In Christ
    Fr. Joseph

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