When Secular Humanism replaced Scholasticism as the popular philosophy of the time there became an increasing desire to follow one's own desires and lusts free from the restraints of the teaching of Jesus and the disciples through the Church. This was aided by the lust of power by the European princes that was usurped by the Church. An alliance formed for these complimentary goals between the Secular Humanists and the princes to usurp the Church's influence on society.
The reformers, Luther, Zwingli, Calvin and et al. labored to form a pseudo-christian faith that focused on God serving man instead of the teaching of Jesus and the disciples through the Church which taught that it is man that serves God instead. The reformers strive for a syncretic blending of Secular Humanism and Christianity and the princes were more than happy to support their efforts out of greed. While this greed motivated the political powers it was pride and arrogance that motivated the reformers and made them feel that they could construct a alternative faith to the faith founded by Jesus and the disciples to one founded upon their own desires and in many cases their own lust for power which was the case with Calvin and his theocracy in Geneva. Instead of Christianity being an obstacle for their ambitions they twisted its teaching to be an asset and a means to their goals.
From the more spiritual aspect of this movement it was a very clever approach from the enemy of the truth of the Christian faith which is Satan who certainly is the author of the confusion that was born of the Reformation or the rebellion from the Church. Because the cry of the Protestants now was for God to serve humanity because God owes humanity devotion. This is contrary to the cry of the faithful for the previous 1500 years of "let thy will be done and not thine".
The fruit of the Protestant movement is over 30,000 different ecclesiastical groups each claiming their own version of truth and each possessed by their own heresy which grows at a exponentially increasing rate. Protestantism is a diluting and obscuring of the truth contained in the teaching of the Church with a focus on man and his desires instead of man serving the will of God. In Protestantism man does not have to humble themselves before their creator but instead take pride in their own creation which usurps the work of Christ. May the Lord have mercy on them. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
27 July, 2009
Discussion with richardatf with continued personal attacks
(richardatf) Picking the questions and issues I pose that are convenient for you, then responding to them on your blog is hiding from the issues. Plus you do not answer them directly.
(Cristoiglesia) I am answering every one of your questions directly.
(richardatf) By what authority has the catholic church changed the observance to Saturday? answer directly
(Cristoiglesia) By the direct authority of Jesus.
Matt 16:19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Mat 18:18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Mat 16:19 gives an important additional element which clarifies what binding and loosing means. It says Matt 16:19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
(richardatf) Was Jesus sent to a burning hell? Answer directly
(Cristoiglesia)no
(richardatf) I tire of this, all I ever get from catholic priests is obfuscation, catechisms, and mistranslations of scripture. It would appear the catholic faith as a whole is incapable of utilizing a Strongs Concordance to learn the meaning of words.
(Cristoiglesia) No, there is no obfuscation, mistranslations or lack of understanding for the original languages. I really do not need Strongs to interpret because I have an education in biblical languages.
(richardatf) Perhaps you consider me harsh and not very Christlike in my demeanor to you.
(Cristoiglesia) Truly you speak! Your impolite bluster belies your frustration and lack of confidence.
(richardatf) Let me tell you, I have nothing against the people in the catholic church. There are many who believe in Christ Jesus with all their hearts and minds and souls. What is unfortunate is the system that teaches these poor souls to worship in a manner that God will not accept. And you teach this system.
(Cristoiglesia) Really, your attitude towards Christ’s Church and its faithful in conjunction with your blatant lies and innuendos against the Church puts the veracity of your statements into great question. Instead you come across as an ignorant, hateful, bigoted, judgmental, arrogant and prideful tool of Satan. The “system” you speak of is the system that was founded by Jesus and the disciples with the promise that it will endure for all time free from apostasy and is the “pillar and foundation of the truth.”
(richardatf)You have nothing against people bowing to statues of Mary (your words). The crux of our argument is this idolatry. And it does not matter what YOU think idolatry is, it matters what God thinks it is. He has made it clear what it is and you continue in it. God will judge you, and I have warned you.”
(Cristoiglesia) No I do not as long as the focus of all worship is towards our Lord and Savior. I agree that it is our Lord that will judge and not you from your own prejudice and hatred. God knows the heart of men and not you who is lost in your own arrogance and hatred. You are the victim of false teachers because you are like those that Jesus prophesied about who can no longer endure sound doctrine and have gathered around them teachers who satisfy their itching ears. Jesus says that at judgment that these will be treated as if He never knew them and they will be thrown into the lake of fire for eternity.
(richardatf)Keep your "god bless"es to yourself, for your god is not my God. I want nothing to do with your false gods, and you have many.
(Cristoiglesia) No, I worship one God of the Trinity. The Bible teaches me to bless and pray for those who hate me and the Church.
Mat 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
"Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves." Romans 13:1-2
"He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me." (Mt 10:40)
And:
"He who hears you hears Me, and he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me." (Lk 10:16)
(richardatf) But do not think you have answered anything satisfactorily.
(Cristoiglesia) Absolutely!
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(Cristoiglesia) I am answering every one of your questions directly.
(richardatf) By what authority has the catholic church changed the observance to Saturday? answer directly
(Cristoiglesia) By the direct authority of Jesus.
Matt 16:19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Mat 18:18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Mat 16:19 gives an important additional element which clarifies what binding and loosing means. It says Matt 16:19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
(richardatf) Was Jesus sent to a burning hell? Answer directly
(Cristoiglesia)no
(richardatf) I tire of this, all I ever get from catholic priests is obfuscation, catechisms, and mistranslations of scripture. It would appear the catholic faith as a whole is incapable of utilizing a Strongs Concordance to learn the meaning of words.
(Cristoiglesia) No, there is no obfuscation, mistranslations or lack of understanding for the original languages. I really do not need Strongs to interpret because I have an education in biblical languages.
(richardatf) Perhaps you consider me harsh and not very Christlike in my demeanor to you.
(Cristoiglesia) Truly you speak! Your impolite bluster belies your frustration and lack of confidence.
(richardatf) Let me tell you, I have nothing against the people in the catholic church. There are many who believe in Christ Jesus with all their hearts and minds and souls. What is unfortunate is the system that teaches these poor souls to worship in a manner that God will not accept. And you teach this system.
(Cristoiglesia) Really, your attitude towards Christ’s Church and its faithful in conjunction with your blatant lies and innuendos against the Church puts the veracity of your statements into great question. Instead you come across as an ignorant, hateful, bigoted, judgmental, arrogant and prideful tool of Satan. The “system” you speak of is the system that was founded by Jesus and the disciples with the promise that it will endure for all time free from apostasy and is the “pillar and foundation of the truth.”
(richardatf)You have nothing against people bowing to statues of Mary (your words). The crux of our argument is this idolatry. And it does not matter what YOU think idolatry is, it matters what God thinks it is. He has made it clear what it is and you continue in it. God will judge you, and I have warned you.”
(Cristoiglesia) No I do not as long as the focus of all worship is towards our Lord and Savior. I agree that it is our Lord that will judge and not you from your own prejudice and hatred. God knows the heart of men and not you who is lost in your own arrogance and hatred. You are the victim of false teachers because you are like those that Jesus prophesied about who can no longer endure sound doctrine and have gathered around them teachers who satisfy their itching ears. Jesus says that at judgment that these will be treated as if He never knew them and they will be thrown into the lake of fire for eternity.
(richardatf)Keep your "god bless"es to yourself, for your god is not my God. I want nothing to do with your false gods, and you have many.
(Cristoiglesia) No, I worship one God of the Trinity. The Bible teaches me to bless and pray for those who hate me and the Church.
Mat 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
"Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves." Romans 13:1-2
"He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me." (Mt 10:40)
And:
"He who hears you hears Me, and he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me." (Lk 10:16)
(richardatf) But do not think you have answered anything satisfactorily.
(Cristoiglesia) Absolutely!
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Personal attack by richardatf against me, my family and the Blessed Body of our Lord
(richardatf) 1st Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
I would think that considering this clear warning you might abstain from posting pictures of yourself next to little girls, especially considering the history of catholic "priests" with young children. I am not accusing you of anything but utilizing poor judgment in this case (and ignoring the above scripture).
Perhaps she is a relation of yours, she couldn't be a child of yours as you are forbidden from having relations with women. Which is against the following:
1st Titus 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
(Cristoiglesia) I guess that if you had a granddaughter like mine and you had a picture taken with her such a picture would have the appearance of evil. MY granddaughter is not evil and neither am I. But you are so filled with evil thoughts about Christ’s Church and its faithful that you can see no goodness such is your prideful bigotry and self righteousness. The history of Catholic priests with children is honorable. The fact is despite your denial is that you are accusing me of evil and for no reason except hatred which does not come from God but another source.
I have four children and eight grandchildren. I do have a wife as do many Catholic priests and have never vowed celibacy as is the state of 22 of the 23 Rites of the Catholic Church for our priests. Celibacy is a choice and is not forbidden by the Church nor has it ever been. It is just a discipline for some. Both St. Paul and Jesus taught in favor of celibacy for the clergy. Titus 3:2. is speaking of the selection of married as priests and should not be inferred to mean that all priests MUST be married.
(richardatf) Kissing a statue is worshiping it, kissing a statue of Peter (it was removed from a Roman temple and was formerly considered a statue of Jupiter, moron) is just as much worship. And I do not bow down before my bed.
(Cristoiglesia) Maybe every time you kiss someone or something it is worship but for most people this is nonsense. Certainly Catholic Christians would not see this as worship as to do so would make them cease to be Catholic. No, the statue was not removed from a Pagan temple and the name changed to St. Peter. You should try kneeling beside your bed to pray, I do it every morning after rising for the day. It is very comfortable resting against the bed to pray. Do not worry, kneeling down is not synonymous with worship.
(richardatf) You have failed to answer much, and citing catechism will not suffice.
(Cristoiglesia) The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the official teaching of the Magisterium of the Church and is reliable as the true teaching of the Church. I know it disagrees with your lies against the Church but it is truly what the Church teaches and not your opinions.
(richardatf) p.s. if the sunburst is manmade,it is an idol and sunworship
(Cristoiglesia) No it is not an idol but the monstrance is the holder for the truly real and substantial Body, Soul and Divinity of our Lord and Savior. We worship Him and not the object.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
I would think that considering this clear warning you might abstain from posting pictures of yourself next to little girls, especially considering the history of catholic "priests" with young children. I am not accusing you of anything but utilizing poor judgment in this case (and ignoring the above scripture).
Perhaps she is a relation of yours, she couldn't be a child of yours as you are forbidden from having relations with women. Which is against the following:
1st Titus 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
(Cristoiglesia) I guess that if you had a granddaughter like mine and you had a picture taken with her such a picture would have the appearance of evil. MY granddaughter is not evil and neither am I. But you are so filled with evil thoughts about Christ’s Church and its faithful that you can see no goodness such is your prideful bigotry and self righteousness. The history of Catholic priests with children is honorable. The fact is despite your denial is that you are accusing me of evil and for no reason except hatred which does not come from God but another source.
I have four children and eight grandchildren. I do have a wife as do many Catholic priests and have never vowed celibacy as is the state of 22 of the 23 Rites of the Catholic Church for our priests. Celibacy is a choice and is not forbidden by the Church nor has it ever been. It is just a discipline for some. Both St. Paul and Jesus taught in favor of celibacy for the clergy. Titus 3:2. is speaking of the selection of married as priests and should not be inferred to mean that all priests MUST be married.
(richardatf) Kissing a statue is worshiping it, kissing a statue of Peter (it was removed from a Roman temple and was formerly considered a statue of Jupiter, moron) is just as much worship. And I do not bow down before my bed.
(Cristoiglesia) Maybe every time you kiss someone or something it is worship but for most people this is nonsense. Certainly Catholic Christians would not see this as worship as to do so would make them cease to be Catholic. No, the statue was not removed from a Pagan temple and the name changed to St. Peter. You should try kneeling beside your bed to pray, I do it every morning after rising for the day. It is very comfortable resting against the bed to pray. Do not worry, kneeling down is not synonymous with worship.
(richardatf) You have failed to answer much, and citing catechism will not suffice.
(Cristoiglesia) The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the official teaching of the Magisterium of the Church and is reliable as the true teaching of the Church. I know it disagrees with your lies against the Church but it is truly what the Church teaches and not your opinions.
(richardatf) p.s. if the sunburst is manmade,it is an idol and sunworship
(Cristoiglesia) No it is not an idol but the monstrance is the holder for the truly real and substantial Body, Soul and Divinity of our Lord and Savior. We worship Him and not the object.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Discussion with richardatf about the Sacrament of Reconciliation
(richardatf) Simple question for you, under what authority have you chaVery intriguing, wonder if you can site a source? Perhaps this is a lie too?
Scripture tells us to " Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. " (James 5:16)
Says nothing about your so called "priests" does it? "one to another" means you confess your faults to the person you harmed.
Cite your source where Jesus says to confess to a "priest", or be proven a liar once again
(Cristoiglesia)
(Cristoiglesia) Christ instituted the sacraments purposefully. The sacrament called reconciliation or penance is what we call our actions when we go to confession. Going to confession and confessing to a priest is the normative way of reconciling oneself back into God's family when we have committed a mortal sin. It is the biblical way corresponding to Jesus' teaching as recorded by the apostle John in John 20: 22-23. What we learn from John is the powers given to the priests are not only to forgive sins but also to retain sins. Jesus commanded the power to be used. It is the duty given by Jesus for the priest to measure the contrition of the penitent and act accordingly.
However, one must repent and pray sincerely to God as an act of contrition before one enters the confessional. The priest represents Jesus by acting in persona Christi and for the entire family of God represented by the Church militant who is harmed by the sin of another. No sin is private but all sin affects others. Jesus described this relationship as a vine with Him as the vine and we as the branches (John 15:5). If one member of the branch is sick then all
the branches are affected and suffer as a result. Because of our familial relationship with each other Jesus created a means of confession so that all those affected in His family are represented by the priest as is God. The acts of sin and forgiveness are not a private matters. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Scripture tells us to " Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. " (James 5:16)
Says nothing about your so called "priests" does it? "one to another" means you confess your faults to the person you harmed.
Cite your source where Jesus says to confess to a "priest", or be proven a liar once again
(Cristoiglesia)
(Cristoiglesia) Christ instituted the sacraments purposefully. The sacrament called reconciliation or penance is what we call our actions when we go to confession. Going to confession and confessing to a priest is the normative way of reconciling oneself back into God's family when we have committed a mortal sin. It is the biblical way corresponding to Jesus' teaching as recorded by the apostle John in John 20: 22-23. What we learn from John is the powers given to the priests are not only to forgive sins but also to retain sins. Jesus commanded the power to be used. It is the duty given by Jesus for the priest to measure the contrition of the penitent and act accordingly.
However, one must repent and pray sincerely to God as an act of contrition before one enters the confessional. The priest represents Jesus by acting in persona Christi and for the entire family of God represented by the Church militant who is harmed by the sin of another. No sin is private but all sin affects others. Jesus described this relationship as a vine with Him as the vine and we as the branches (John 15:5). If one member of the branch is sick then all
the branches are affected and suffer as a result. Because of our familial relationship with each other Jesus created a means of confession so that all those affected in His family are represented by the priest as is God. The acts of sin and forgiveness are not a private matters. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Discussion with richardatf about Sunday worship
(richardatf) Simple question for you, under what authority have you changed the Law of God and the day (time) of worship from Saturday (the true Sabbath) to Sunday (the venerable day of the sun)?
Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
(Cristoiglesia)
One of the things that the Seventh Day Adventists fail to acknowledge is that the practice of worship on the first day of the week is as old as Christianity and was instituted by the Apostles. It is important to recognize that this is eisegesis on their part supporting instead of the Ten Commandments the teaching of their prophetess and founder Ellen Gould White. They would say that this practice, which is as old as Christianity, is a violation of God’s eternal decree. Let us go to Scriptures and see if the evidence is there to support their conclusions.
Let us look at the basis, other than Ms. White’s visions, that SDA’s have this belief and criticism of the orthodox belief in observing the first day of the week instead of the Sabbath. According to Scriptures this is the “perpetual covenant” that was given to man through all ages. Therefore according to history the Jew’s have observed the Sabbath in commemoration of our Lord’s rest after creation. These are the verses in regards to the pre-Christian practice:
(Exo 20:8 DRB) Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.
(Exo 20:9 DRB) Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works.
(Exo 20:10 DRB) But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates.
(Exo 31:16 DRB) Let the children of Israel keep the sabbath, and celebrate it in their generations. It is an everlasting covenant
(Exo 31:17 DRB) Between me and the children of Israel, and a perpetual sign. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and in the seventh he ceased from work.
(Exo 31:18 DRB) And the Lord, when he had ended these words in Mount Sinai, gave to Moses two stone tables of testimony, written with the finger of God.
(Deu 5:12 DRB) Observe the day of the sabbath, to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee.
(Gen 2:1 DRB) So the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the furniture of them.
(Gen 2:2 DRB) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made: and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done.
(Gen 2:3 DRB) And he blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
(Gen 2:4 DRB) These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:
(Gen 2:5 DRB) And every plant of the field before it sprung up in the earth, and every herb of the ground before it grew: for the Lord God had not rained upon the earth; and there was not a man to till the earth.
(Gen 2:6 DRB) But a spring rose out of the earth, watering all the surface of the earth.
(Gen 2:7 DRB) And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
(Gen 2:8 DRB) And the Lord God had planted a paradise of pleasure from the beginning: wherein he placed man whom he had formed.
(Gen 2:9 DRB) And the Lord God brought forth of the ground all manner of trees, fair to behold, and pleasant to eat of: the tree of life also in the midst of paradise: and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
(Gen 2:10 DRB) And a river went out of the place of pleasure to water paradise, which from thence is divided into four heads.
(Gen 2:11 DRB) The name of the one is Phison: that is it which compasseth all the land of Hevilath, where gold groweth.
(Gen 2:12 DRB) And the gold of that land is very good: there is found bdellium, and the onyx stone.
(Gen 2:13 DRB) And the name of the second river is Gehon: the same is it that compasseth all the land of Ethiopia.
(Gen 2:14 DRB) And the name of the third river is Tigris: the same passeth along by the Assyrians. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
(Gen 2:15 DRB) And the Lord God took man, and put him into the paradise of pleasure, to dress it, and to keep it.
(Gen 2:16 DRB) And he commanded him, saying: Of every tree of paradise thou shalt eat:
(Gen 2:17 DRB) But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat. For in what day soever thou shalt eat of it, thou shalt die the death.
(Gen 2:18 DRB) And the Lord God said: It is not good for man to be alone: let us make him a help like unto himself.
(Gen 2:19 DRB) And the Lord God having formed out of the ground all the beasts of the earth, and all the fowls of the air, brought them to Adam to see what he would call them: for whatsoever Adam called any living creature the same is its name.
(Gen 2:20 DRB) And Adam called all the beasts by their names, and all the fowls of the air, and all the cattle of the field: but for Adam there was not found a helper like himself.
(Gen 2:21 DRB) Then the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon Adam: and when he was fast asleep, he took one of his ribs, and filled up flesh for it.
(Gen 2:22 DRB) And the Lord God built the rib which he took from Adam into a woman: and brought her to Adam.
(Gen 2:23 DRB) And Adam said: This now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man.
(Gen 2:24 DRB) Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh.
(Gen 2:25 DRB) And they were both naked: to wit, Adam and his wife: and were not ashamed.
(Gen 3:1 DRB) Now the serpent was more subtle tha any of the beasts of the earth which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman: Why hath God commanded you, that you should not eat of every tree of paradise?
There have been those who will say that the Catholic Church abandoned this commandment and practice but such a claim is incorrect. Instead the Church transferred the third commandment to observe the Sabbath to the first day of the week and called it the “Lord’s day” to commemorate the fact that it is through his resurrection that we become a “new creation” as is stated in the following verses:
(Act 20:7 DRB) And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow. And he continued his speech until midnight.
(1Co 16:2 DRB) On the first day of the week, let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him: that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.
(2Co 5:17 DRB) If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away. Behold all things are made new.
(Gal 6:15 DRB) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but a new creature.
In about the year 60AD the Didache records and instructs the Christians to gather together on the “Lord’s Day”. Evidence from the Church fathers are in the writings of Justin Martyr around 155 AD to the Roman Emperor that stated that the liturgy of the Eucharist is celebrated on the first day of the week instead of the Sabbath.
There are principally two reasons that the Church transferred the observance of the third commandment to the first day of the week. First of all this is the day that Christ rose from the dead:
(Mat 28:1 DRB) And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.
(Joh 20:1 DRB) And on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen cometh early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre: and she saw the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
The second reason is that the Church wanted to make clear their separation from Pharisaical Judaism which included ritualistic animal sacrifices because the ultimate and final sacrifice had occurred to take away the sins of the world. Christ’s sacrifice had replaced the Passover lamb which was slain and eaten as a symbol of sacrifice for sin. In addition we see that Christians also rejected other rituals of the Jews such as the Kosher food laws and dietary restrictions imposed by the law of Moses. Nor does the Christian Church observe Passover or the feast days as the following verses show:
(Joh 1:29 DRB) The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him; and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God. Behold him who taketh away the sin of the world.
(Joh 1:36 DRB) And beholding Jesus walking, he saith: Behold the Lamb of God.
(Deu 12:15 DRB) But if thou desirest to eat, and the eating of flesh delight thee, kill, and eat according to the blessing of the Lord thy God, which he hath given thee, in thy cities: whether it be unclean, that is to say, having blemish or defect: or clean, that is to say, sound and without blemish, such as may be offered, as the roe, and the hart, shalt thou eat it:
(Deu 12:16 DRB) Only the blood thou shalt not eat, but thou shalt pour it out upon the earth as water.
(Deu 12:17 DRB) Thou mayst not eat in thy towns the tithes of thy corn, and thy wine, and thy oil, the firstborn of thy herds and thy cattle, nor any thing that thou vowest, and that thou wilt offer voluntarily, and the firstfruits of thy hands:
(Deu 12:18 DRB) But thou shalt eat them before the Lord thy God in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose, thou and thy son and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and maidservant, and the Levite that dwelleth in thy cities: and thou shalt rejoice and be refreshed before the Lord thy God in all things, whereunto thou shalt put thy hand.
(Deu 12:19 DRB) Take heed thou forsake not the Levite all the time that thou livest in the land.
(Deu 12:20 DRB) When the Lord thy God shall have enlarged thy borders, as he hath spoken to thee, and thou wilt eat the flesh that thy soul desireth:
(Deu 12:21 DRB) And if the place which the Lord thy God shall choose, that his name should be there, be far off, thou shalt kill of thy herds and of thy flocks, as I have commanded thee, and shalt eat in thy towns, as it pleaseth thee.
(Deu 12:22 DRB) Even as the roe and the hart is eaten, so shalt thou eat them: both the clean and unclean shall eat of them alike.
(Deu 12:23 DRB) Only beware of this, that thou eat not the blood, for the blood is for the soul: and therefore thou must not eat the soul with the flesh:
(Deu 12:24 DRB) But thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water,
(Deu 12:25 DRB) That it may be well with thee and thy children after thee, when thou shalt do that which is pleasing in the sight of the Lord.
(Deu 12:26 DRB) But the things which thou hast sanctified and vowed to the Lord, thou shalt take, and shalt come to the place which the Lord shall choose:
(Deu 12:27 DRB) And shalt offer thy oblations, the flesh and the blood upon the altar of the Lord thy God: the blood of thy victims thou shalt pour on the altar: and the flesh thou thyself shalt eat.
(Deu 12:28 DRB) Observe and hear all the things that I command thee, that it may be well with thee and thy children after thee for ever, when thou shalt do what is good and pleasing in the sight of the Lord thy God.
(Deu 14:3 DRB) Eat not the things that are unclean.
(Deu 14:4 DRB) These are the beasts that you shall eat, the ox, and the sheep, and the goat,
(Deu 14:5 DRB) The hart and the roe, the buffle, the chamois, the pygarg, the wild goat, the camelopardalus.
(Deu 14:6 DRB) Every beast that divideth the hoof in two parts, and cheweth the cud, you shall eat.
(Deu 14:7 DRB) But of them that chew the cud, but divide not the hoof, you shall not eat, such as the camel, the hare, and the cherogril: because they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof, they shall be unclean to you.
(Deu 14:8 DRB) The swine also, because it divideth the hoof, but cheweth not the cud, shall be unclean, their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch.
(Deu 14:9 DRB) These shall you eat of all that abide in the waters: All that have fins and scales, you shall eat.
(Deu 14:10 DRB) Such as are without fins and scales, you shall not eat, because they are unclean.
(Deu 14:11 DRB) All birds that are clean you shall eat.
(Deu 14:12 DRB) The unclean eat not: to wit, the eagle, and the grype, and the osprey,
(Deu 14:13 DRB) The ringtail, and the vulture, and the kite according to their kind:
(Deu 14:14 DRB) And all of the raven's kind:
(Deu 14:15 DRB) And the ostrich, and the owl, and the larus, and the hawk according to its kind:
(Deu 14:16 DRB) The heron, and the swan, and the stork,
(Deu 14:17 DRB) And the cormorant, the porphirion, and the night crow,
(Deu 14:18 DRB) The bittern, and the charadrion, every one in their kind: the houp also and the bat.
(Deu 14:19 DRB) Every thing that creepeth, and hath little wings, shall be unclean, and shall not be eaten.
(Deu 14:20 DRB) All that is clean, you shall eat.
(Deu 14:21 DRB) But whatsoever is dead of itself, eat not thereof. Give it to the stranger, that is within thy gates, to eat, or sell it to him: because thou art the holy people of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not boil a kid in the milk of his dam.
(Col 2:16 DRB) Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a festival day or of the new moon or of the sabbaths,
(Col 2:17 DRB) Which are a shadow of things to come: but the body is of Christ.
(Col 2:18 DRB) Let no man seduce you, willing in humility and religion of angels, walking in the things which he hath not seen, in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh:
(Col 2:19 DRB) And not holding the head, from which the whole body, by joints and bands, being supplied with nourishment and compacted, groweth into the increase of God.
(Col 2:20 DRB) If then you be dead with Christ from the elements of this world, why do you yet decree as though living in the world?
(Col 2:21 DRB) Touch not: taste not: handle not.
(Col 2:22 DRB) Which all are unto destruction by the very use, according to the precepts and doctrines of men.
(Col 2:23 DRB) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in superstition and humility, and not sparing the body; not in any honour to the filling of the flesh.
This was all done by the earliest Christians to witness to others the true meaning of the Sabbath which came to complete fruition in the New Covenant of Christ, in whom we find true rest.
(Mat 11:28 DRB) Come to me all you that labor and are burdened, and I will refresh you.
The Old Covenant Sabbath with its temple ceremonies and animal sacrifices was an imperfect prefiguration of Christ’s perfect fulfillment through His New Covenant. The Old Covenant practices were only a copy and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary. As the Scriptures say once the perfect has come, the imperfect passed away. Just as Baptism replaced circumcision the Church saw the third commandment differently.
(Heb 8:5 DRB) Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things. As it was answered to Moses, when he was to finish the tabernacle: See (saith he) that thou make all things according to the pattern which was shewn thee on the mount.
(Heb 10:1 DRB) For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, by the selfsame sacrifices which they offer continually every year, can never make the comers thereunto perfect.
The rituals of the Old Covenant are not binding on Christians according to St. Paul and he even rebuked Christians who continued with the Old covenant restrictions and ceremonies. In Christ, the demands and the observance of the Old Covenant demands and obligations of which the Sabbath are a part are no longer binding and have passed away, being replaced by the spiritual observance of the Sabbath of the New Covenant. One other thing, when the rich man asked what he must do to be saved Christ told him several commandments to follow and none were to keep holy the Sabbath.
(Gal 4:9 DRB) But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known by God: how turn you again to the weak and needy elements which you desire to serve again?
(Gal 4:10 DRB) You observe days and months and times, and years.
(Gal 4:11 DRB) I am afraid of you, lest perhaps I have laboured in vain among you.
(Col 2:16 DRB) Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a festival day or of the new moon or of the sabbaths,
(Col 2:17 DRB) Which are a shadow of things to come: but the body is of Christ.
(Mat 19:16 DRB) And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting?
(Mat 19:17 DRB) Who said to him: Why askest thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(Mat 19:18 DRB) He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness.
(Mat 19:19 DRB) Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
(Mat 19:20 DRB) The young man saith to him: All these have I kept from my youth, what is yet wanting to me?
(Mat 19:21 DRB) Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
(Mat 19:22 DRB) And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions.
Now, I have been told by our critics that the Catholic Church has no authority to change the third commandment but as I have pointed out Christ gave that authority as well as the teaching authority:
(Mat 18:18 DRB) Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
(Luk 10:16 DRB) He that heareth you heareth me: and he that despiseth you despiseth me: and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
(Mat 28:18 DRB) And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
(Mat 28:19 DRB) Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
(Mat 28:20 DRB) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
Jesus made it very clear that He is the Lord of the Sabbath Day and stated that the day was made for man and not man for the Sabbath, that being true it would logically follow that the Church shares that authority as was said to Peter when He passed the keys:
(Mar 2:28 DRB) Therefore the Son of man is Lord of the sabbath also.
(Luk 6:5 DRB) And he said to them: The Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
(Mar 2:27 DRB) And he said to them: The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.
(Mat 10:40 DRB) He that receiveth you, receiveth me: and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me.
(Mat 16:19 DRB) And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
(Mat 18:18 DRB) Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
(Mat 18:19 DRB) Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.
(Mat 18:20 DRB) For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Thee are other parallels in Church authority other than the observance of the Sabbath from the last until the first day of the week and in all cases it does not represent an abandonment of the law as Church critics would suggest but is rather a fulfillment of the law in a more perfect manner. We must remember what Christ said:
(Mat 5:17 DRB) Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(Mat 5:18 DRB) For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.
(richardatf) so lets see, the pope speaks great words against the most High my calling himself "Vicarus Filii Dei", he changes the laws and times by changing the day of observance to Sunday and (in your vaunted catechisms) removing the Sabbath day Commandment and splitting the Commandment against coveting into two.
(Cristoiglesia) Sorry, but “Vicarius Filii Dei” is not and never has been a title of the Pope and it is not inscribed in the Papal Tiara as Alexander Hislop claims..
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
(Cristoiglesia)
One of the things that the Seventh Day Adventists fail to acknowledge is that the practice of worship on the first day of the week is as old as Christianity and was instituted by the Apostles. It is important to recognize that this is eisegesis on their part supporting instead of the Ten Commandments the teaching of their prophetess and founder Ellen Gould White. They would say that this practice, which is as old as Christianity, is a violation of God’s eternal decree. Let us go to Scriptures and see if the evidence is there to support their conclusions.
Let us look at the basis, other than Ms. White’s visions, that SDA’s have this belief and criticism of the orthodox belief in observing the first day of the week instead of the Sabbath. According to Scriptures this is the “perpetual covenant” that was given to man through all ages. Therefore according to history the Jew’s have observed the Sabbath in commemoration of our Lord’s rest after creation. These are the verses in regards to the pre-Christian practice:
(Exo 20:8 DRB) Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.
(Exo 20:9 DRB) Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works.
(Exo 20:10 DRB) But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates.
(Exo 31:16 DRB) Let the children of Israel keep the sabbath, and celebrate it in their generations. It is an everlasting covenant
(Exo 31:17 DRB) Between me and the children of Israel, and a perpetual sign. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and in the seventh he ceased from work.
(Exo 31:18 DRB) And the Lord, when he had ended these words in Mount Sinai, gave to Moses two stone tables of testimony, written with the finger of God.
(Deu 5:12 DRB) Observe the day of the sabbath, to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee.
(Gen 2:1 DRB) So the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the furniture of them.
(Gen 2:2 DRB) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made: and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done.
(Gen 2:3 DRB) And he blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
(Gen 2:4 DRB) These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:
(Gen 2:5 DRB) And every plant of the field before it sprung up in the earth, and every herb of the ground before it grew: for the Lord God had not rained upon the earth; and there was not a man to till the earth.
(Gen 2:6 DRB) But a spring rose out of the earth, watering all the surface of the earth.
(Gen 2:7 DRB) And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
(Gen 2:8 DRB) And the Lord God had planted a paradise of pleasure from the beginning: wherein he placed man whom he had formed.
(Gen 2:9 DRB) And the Lord God brought forth of the ground all manner of trees, fair to behold, and pleasant to eat of: the tree of life also in the midst of paradise: and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
(Gen 2:10 DRB) And a river went out of the place of pleasure to water paradise, which from thence is divided into four heads.
(Gen 2:11 DRB) The name of the one is Phison: that is it which compasseth all the land of Hevilath, where gold groweth.
(Gen 2:12 DRB) And the gold of that land is very good: there is found bdellium, and the onyx stone.
(Gen 2:13 DRB) And the name of the second river is Gehon: the same is it that compasseth all the land of Ethiopia.
(Gen 2:14 DRB) And the name of the third river is Tigris: the same passeth along by the Assyrians. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
(Gen 2:15 DRB) And the Lord God took man, and put him into the paradise of pleasure, to dress it, and to keep it.
(Gen 2:16 DRB) And he commanded him, saying: Of every tree of paradise thou shalt eat:
(Gen 2:17 DRB) But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat. For in what day soever thou shalt eat of it, thou shalt die the death.
(Gen 2:18 DRB) And the Lord God said: It is not good for man to be alone: let us make him a help like unto himself.
(Gen 2:19 DRB) And the Lord God having formed out of the ground all the beasts of the earth, and all the fowls of the air, brought them to Adam to see what he would call them: for whatsoever Adam called any living creature the same is its name.
(Gen 2:20 DRB) And Adam called all the beasts by their names, and all the fowls of the air, and all the cattle of the field: but for Adam there was not found a helper like himself.
(Gen 2:21 DRB) Then the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon Adam: and when he was fast asleep, he took one of his ribs, and filled up flesh for it.
(Gen 2:22 DRB) And the Lord God built the rib which he took from Adam into a woman: and brought her to Adam.
(Gen 2:23 DRB) And Adam said: This now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man.
(Gen 2:24 DRB) Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh.
(Gen 2:25 DRB) And they were both naked: to wit, Adam and his wife: and were not ashamed.
(Gen 3:1 DRB) Now the serpent was more subtle tha any of the beasts of the earth which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman: Why hath God commanded you, that you should not eat of every tree of paradise?
There have been those who will say that the Catholic Church abandoned this commandment and practice but such a claim is incorrect. Instead the Church transferred the third commandment to observe the Sabbath to the first day of the week and called it the “Lord’s day” to commemorate the fact that it is through his resurrection that we become a “new creation” as is stated in the following verses:
(Act 20:7 DRB) And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow. And he continued his speech until midnight.
(1Co 16:2 DRB) On the first day of the week, let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him: that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.
(2Co 5:17 DRB) If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away. Behold all things are made new.
(Gal 6:15 DRB) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but a new creature.
In about the year 60AD the Didache records and instructs the Christians to gather together on the “Lord’s Day”. Evidence from the Church fathers are in the writings of Justin Martyr around 155 AD to the Roman Emperor that stated that the liturgy of the Eucharist is celebrated on the first day of the week instead of the Sabbath.
There are principally two reasons that the Church transferred the observance of the third commandment to the first day of the week. First of all this is the day that Christ rose from the dead:
(Mat 28:1 DRB) And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.
(Joh 20:1 DRB) And on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen cometh early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre: and she saw the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
The second reason is that the Church wanted to make clear their separation from Pharisaical Judaism which included ritualistic animal sacrifices because the ultimate and final sacrifice had occurred to take away the sins of the world. Christ’s sacrifice had replaced the Passover lamb which was slain and eaten as a symbol of sacrifice for sin. In addition we see that Christians also rejected other rituals of the Jews such as the Kosher food laws and dietary restrictions imposed by the law of Moses. Nor does the Christian Church observe Passover or the feast days as the following verses show:
(Joh 1:29 DRB) The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him; and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God. Behold him who taketh away the sin of the world.
(Joh 1:36 DRB) And beholding Jesus walking, he saith: Behold the Lamb of God.
(Deu 12:15 DRB) But if thou desirest to eat, and the eating of flesh delight thee, kill, and eat according to the blessing of the Lord thy God, which he hath given thee, in thy cities: whether it be unclean, that is to say, having blemish or defect: or clean, that is to say, sound and without blemish, such as may be offered, as the roe, and the hart, shalt thou eat it:
(Deu 12:16 DRB) Only the blood thou shalt not eat, but thou shalt pour it out upon the earth as water.
(Deu 12:17 DRB) Thou mayst not eat in thy towns the tithes of thy corn, and thy wine, and thy oil, the firstborn of thy herds and thy cattle, nor any thing that thou vowest, and that thou wilt offer voluntarily, and the firstfruits of thy hands:
(Deu 12:18 DRB) But thou shalt eat them before the Lord thy God in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose, thou and thy son and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and maidservant, and the Levite that dwelleth in thy cities: and thou shalt rejoice and be refreshed before the Lord thy God in all things, whereunto thou shalt put thy hand.
(Deu 12:19 DRB) Take heed thou forsake not the Levite all the time that thou livest in the land.
(Deu 12:20 DRB) When the Lord thy God shall have enlarged thy borders, as he hath spoken to thee, and thou wilt eat the flesh that thy soul desireth:
(Deu 12:21 DRB) And if the place which the Lord thy God shall choose, that his name should be there, be far off, thou shalt kill of thy herds and of thy flocks, as I have commanded thee, and shalt eat in thy towns, as it pleaseth thee.
(Deu 12:22 DRB) Even as the roe and the hart is eaten, so shalt thou eat them: both the clean and unclean shall eat of them alike.
(Deu 12:23 DRB) Only beware of this, that thou eat not the blood, for the blood is for the soul: and therefore thou must not eat the soul with the flesh:
(Deu 12:24 DRB) But thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water,
(Deu 12:25 DRB) That it may be well with thee and thy children after thee, when thou shalt do that which is pleasing in the sight of the Lord.
(Deu 12:26 DRB) But the things which thou hast sanctified and vowed to the Lord, thou shalt take, and shalt come to the place which the Lord shall choose:
(Deu 12:27 DRB) And shalt offer thy oblations, the flesh and the blood upon the altar of the Lord thy God: the blood of thy victims thou shalt pour on the altar: and the flesh thou thyself shalt eat.
(Deu 12:28 DRB) Observe and hear all the things that I command thee, that it may be well with thee and thy children after thee for ever, when thou shalt do what is good and pleasing in the sight of the Lord thy God.
(Deu 14:3 DRB) Eat not the things that are unclean.
(Deu 14:4 DRB) These are the beasts that you shall eat, the ox, and the sheep, and the goat,
(Deu 14:5 DRB) The hart and the roe, the buffle, the chamois, the pygarg, the wild goat, the camelopardalus.
(Deu 14:6 DRB) Every beast that divideth the hoof in two parts, and cheweth the cud, you shall eat.
(Deu 14:7 DRB) But of them that chew the cud, but divide not the hoof, you shall not eat, such as the camel, the hare, and the cherogril: because they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof, they shall be unclean to you.
(Deu 14:8 DRB) The swine also, because it divideth the hoof, but cheweth not the cud, shall be unclean, their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch.
(Deu 14:9 DRB) These shall you eat of all that abide in the waters: All that have fins and scales, you shall eat.
(Deu 14:10 DRB) Such as are without fins and scales, you shall not eat, because they are unclean.
(Deu 14:11 DRB) All birds that are clean you shall eat.
(Deu 14:12 DRB) The unclean eat not: to wit, the eagle, and the grype, and the osprey,
(Deu 14:13 DRB) The ringtail, and the vulture, and the kite according to their kind:
(Deu 14:14 DRB) And all of the raven's kind:
(Deu 14:15 DRB) And the ostrich, and the owl, and the larus, and the hawk according to its kind:
(Deu 14:16 DRB) The heron, and the swan, and the stork,
(Deu 14:17 DRB) And the cormorant, the porphirion, and the night crow,
(Deu 14:18 DRB) The bittern, and the charadrion, every one in their kind: the houp also and the bat.
(Deu 14:19 DRB) Every thing that creepeth, and hath little wings, shall be unclean, and shall not be eaten.
(Deu 14:20 DRB) All that is clean, you shall eat.
(Deu 14:21 DRB) But whatsoever is dead of itself, eat not thereof. Give it to the stranger, that is within thy gates, to eat, or sell it to him: because thou art the holy people of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not boil a kid in the milk of his dam.
(Col 2:16 DRB) Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a festival day or of the new moon or of the sabbaths,
(Col 2:17 DRB) Which are a shadow of things to come: but the body is of Christ.
(Col 2:18 DRB) Let no man seduce you, willing in humility and religion of angels, walking in the things which he hath not seen, in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh:
(Col 2:19 DRB) And not holding the head, from which the whole body, by joints and bands, being supplied with nourishment and compacted, groweth into the increase of God.
(Col 2:20 DRB) If then you be dead with Christ from the elements of this world, why do you yet decree as though living in the world?
(Col 2:21 DRB) Touch not: taste not: handle not.
(Col 2:22 DRB) Which all are unto destruction by the very use, according to the precepts and doctrines of men.
(Col 2:23 DRB) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in superstition and humility, and not sparing the body; not in any honour to the filling of the flesh.
This was all done by the earliest Christians to witness to others the true meaning of the Sabbath which came to complete fruition in the New Covenant of Christ, in whom we find true rest.
(Mat 11:28 DRB) Come to me all you that labor and are burdened, and I will refresh you.
The Old Covenant Sabbath with its temple ceremonies and animal sacrifices was an imperfect prefiguration of Christ’s perfect fulfillment through His New Covenant. The Old Covenant practices were only a copy and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary. As the Scriptures say once the perfect has come, the imperfect passed away. Just as Baptism replaced circumcision the Church saw the third commandment differently.
(Heb 8:5 DRB) Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things. As it was answered to Moses, when he was to finish the tabernacle: See (saith he) that thou make all things according to the pattern which was shewn thee on the mount.
(Heb 10:1 DRB) For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, by the selfsame sacrifices which they offer continually every year, can never make the comers thereunto perfect.
The rituals of the Old Covenant are not binding on Christians according to St. Paul and he even rebuked Christians who continued with the Old covenant restrictions and ceremonies. In Christ, the demands and the observance of the Old Covenant demands and obligations of which the Sabbath are a part are no longer binding and have passed away, being replaced by the spiritual observance of the Sabbath of the New Covenant. One other thing, when the rich man asked what he must do to be saved Christ told him several commandments to follow and none were to keep holy the Sabbath.
(Gal 4:9 DRB) But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known by God: how turn you again to the weak and needy elements which you desire to serve again?
(Gal 4:10 DRB) You observe days and months and times, and years.
(Gal 4:11 DRB) I am afraid of you, lest perhaps I have laboured in vain among you.
(Col 2:16 DRB) Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a festival day or of the new moon or of the sabbaths,
(Col 2:17 DRB) Which are a shadow of things to come: but the body is of Christ.
(Mat 19:16 DRB) And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting?
(Mat 19:17 DRB) Who said to him: Why askest thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(Mat 19:18 DRB) He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness.
(Mat 19:19 DRB) Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
(Mat 19:20 DRB) The young man saith to him: All these have I kept from my youth, what is yet wanting to me?
(Mat 19:21 DRB) Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
(Mat 19:22 DRB) And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions.
Now, I have been told by our critics that the Catholic Church has no authority to change the third commandment but as I have pointed out Christ gave that authority as well as the teaching authority:
(Mat 18:18 DRB) Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
(Luk 10:16 DRB) He that heareth you heareth me: and he that despiseth you despiseth me: and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
(Mat 28:18 DRB) And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
(Mat 28:19 DRB) Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
(Mat 28:20 DRB) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
Jesus made it very clear that He is the Lord of the Sabbath Day and stated that the day was made for man and not man for the Sabbath, that being true it would logically follow that the Church shares that authority as was said to Peter when He passed the keys:
(Mar 2:28 DRB) Therefore the Son of man is Lord of the sabbath also.
(Luk 6:5 DRB) And he said to them: The Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
(Mar 2:27 DRB) And he said to them: The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.
(Mat 10:40 DRB) He that receiveth you, receiveth me: and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me.
(Mat 16:19 DRB) And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
(Mat 18:18 DRB) Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
(Mat 18:19 DRB) Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.
(Mat 18:20 DRB) For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Thee are other parallels in Church authority other than the observance of the Sabbath from the last until the first day of the week and in all cases it does not represent an abandonment of the law as Church critics would suggest but is rather a fulfillment of the law in a more perfect manner. We must remember what Christ said:
(Mat 5:17 DRB) Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(Mat 5:18 DRB) For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.
(richardatf) so lets see, the pope speaks great words against the most High my calling himself "Vicarus Filii Dei", he changes the laws and times by changing the day of observance to Sunday and (in your vaunted catechisms) removing the Sabbath day Commandment and splitting the Commandment against coveting into two.
(Cristoiglesia) Sorry, but “Vicarius Filii Dei” is not and never has been a title of the Pope and it is not inscribed in the Papal Tiara as Alexander Hislop claims..
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Discussion with Freedom about grace, justification, merit and Holiness
(Freedom) Thanks for correcting me, but I still don't understand the meaning of "grace" the way that the RCC interprets itIf one recieves grace through sacraments, then that comes down to "doing or achieving" something other than "faith alone." which means Catholics are saved by faith + works. The definition of grace is "unmerited or unearned favour.
Jesus did tell us to be baptized and to participate in communion. But he did not say that this is how to be saved or receive grace. He said to "believe" in him.
The works of baptism and communion are done out of obedience but not to "achieve" grace. That given freely by trusting and believing in Christ's sacrifice that he did "once and for all." I have been humbly trying to understand the RCC interpretation of grace for a long time. I am sure that I am not being blinded by my pride. I want to be 100% sure that I am believing in what is right.
(Cristoiglesia) The belief in faith alone is a heresy condemned the only place it appears in Scripture by St. James. Even the demons believe. The Catholic Church does not teach that works merit salvation but instead we teach grace through faith. You are accusing us of the same heresy we have already condemned which is Pelagianism. Can you agree that works may come as the result of the believer cooperating with the Holy Spirit and being obedient to God and working within His will? Can you also agree that it is the Holy Spirit that makes us desire Him and become in a familial relationship with Him? Jesus did say that unless we eat His Body and drink His blood we have no life (eternal) in us. We desire His great feast and it is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that gives us that desire and hunger to do His commandment. Surely we do desire eternal life but we do not desire His Body and Blood because of this but it is the Holy Spirit that gives us the desire and compulsion to do His will.
ARTICLE 2
GRACE AND JUSTIFICATION
I. JUSTIFICATION
1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ" and through Baptism:34
But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35
1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ's Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36
[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37
1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."38 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.39
1990 Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God's merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.
1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or "justice") here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.
1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41
1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:
When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight.42
1994 Justification is the most excellent work of God's love made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that "the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth," because "heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect . . . will not pass away."43 He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy.
1995 The Holy Spirit is the master of the interior life. By giving birth to the "inner man,"44 justification entails the sanctification of his whole being:
Just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. . . . But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.45
II. GRACE
1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46
1997 Grace is a participation in the life of God. It introduces us into the intimacy of Trinitarian life: by Baptism the Christian participates in the grace of Christ, the Head of his Body. As an "adopted son" he can henceforth call God "Father," in union with the only Son. He receives the life of the Spirit who breathes charity into him and who forms the Church.
1998 This vocation to eternal life is supernatural. It depends entirely on God's gratuitous initiative, for he alone can reveal and give himself. It surpasses the power of human intellect and will, as that of every other creature.47
1999 The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification:48
Therefore if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself.49
2000 Sanctifying grace is an habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that perfects the soul itself to enable it to live with God, to act by his love. Habitual grace, the permanent disposition to live and act in keeping with God's call, is distinguished from actual graces which refer to God's interventions, whether at the beginning of conversion or in the course of the work of sanctification.
2001 The preparation of man for the reception of grace is already a work of grace. This latter is needed to arouse and sustain our collaboration in justification through faith, and in sanctification through charity. God brings to completion in us what he has begun, "since he who completes his work by cooperating with our will began by working so that we might will it:"50
Indeed we also work, but we are only collaborating with God who works, for his mercy has gone before us. It has gone before us so that we may be healed, and follows us so that once healed, we may be given life; it goes before us so that we may be called, and follows us so that we may be glorified; it goes before us so that we may live devoutly, and follows us so that we may always live with God: for without him we can do nothing.51
2002 God's free initiative demands man's free response, for God has created man in his image by conferring on him, along with freedom, the power to know him and love him. The soul only enters freely into the communion of love. God immediately touches and directly moves the heart of man. He has placed in man a longing for truth and goodness that only he can satisfy. The promises of "eternal life" respond, beyond all hope, to this desire:
If at the end of your very good works . . ., you rested on the seventh day, it was to foretell by the voice of your book that at the end of our works, which are indeed "very good" since you have given them to us, we shall also rest in you on the sabbath of eternal life.52
2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning "favor," "gratuitous gift," "benefit."53 Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.54
2004 Among the special graces ought to be mentioned the graces of state that accompany the exercise of the responsibilities of the Christian life and of the ministries within the Church:
Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; he who teaches, in his teaching; he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who contributes, in liberality; he who gives aid, with zeal; he who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.55
2005 Since it belongs to the supernatural order, grace escapes our experience and cannot be known except by faith. We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved.56 However, according to the Lord's words "Thus you will know them by their fruits"57 - reflection on God's blessings in our life and in the lives of the saints offers us a guarantee that grace is at work in us and spurs us on to an ever greater faith and an attitude of trustful poverty.
A pleasing illustration of this attitude is found in the reply of St. Joan of Arc to a question posed as a trap by her ecclesiastical judges: "Asked if she knew that she was in God's grace, she replied: 'If I am not, may it please God to put me in it; if I am, may it please God to keep me there.'"58
III. MERIT
You are glorified in the assembly of your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits you are crowning your own gifts.59
2006 The term "merit" refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.
2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.
2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.
2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God's gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us "co-heirs" with Christ and worthy of obtaining "the promised inheritance of eternal life."60 The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness.61 "Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God's gifts."62
2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God's wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.
2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.
After earth's exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the fatherland, but I do not want to lay up merits for heaven. I want to work for your love alone. . . . In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands, for I do not ask you, Lord, to count my works. All our justice is blemished in your eyes. I wish, then, to be clothed in your own justice and to receive from your love the eternal possession of yourself.63
IV. CHRISTIAN HOLINESS
2012 "We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him . . . For those whom he fore knew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified."64
2013 "All Christians in any state or walk of life are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the perfection of charity."65 All are called to holiness: "Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."66
In order to reach this perfection the faithful should use the strength dealt out to them by Christ's gift, so that . . . doing the will of the Father in everything, they may wholeheartedly devote themselves to the glory of God and to the service of their neighbor. Thus the holiness of the People of God will grow in fruitful abundance, as is clearly shown in the history of the Church through the lives of so many saints.67
2014 Spiritual progress tends toward ever more intimate union with Christ. This union is called "mystical" because it participates in the mystery of Christ through the sacraments - "the holy mysteries" - and, in him, in the mystery of the Holy Trinity. God calls us all to this intimate union with him, even if the special graces or extraordinary signs of this mystical life are granted only to some for the sake of manifesting the gratuitous gift given to all.
2015 The way of perfection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle.68 Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes:
He who climbs never stops going from beginning to beginning, through beginnings that have no end. He never stops desiring what he already knows.69
2016 The children of our holy mother the Church rightly hope for the grace of final perseverance and the recompense of God their Father for the good works accomplished with his grace in communion with Jesus.70 Keeping the same rule of life, believers share the "blessed hope" of those whom the divine mercy gathers into the "holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."71
IN BRIEF
2017 The grace of the Holy Spirit confers upon us the righteousness of God. Uniting us by faith and Baptism to the Passion and Resurrection of Christ, the Spirit makes us sharers in his life.
2018 Like conversion, justification has two aspects. Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, and so accepts forgiveness and righteousness from on high.
2019 Justification includes the remission of sins, sanctification, and the renewal of the inner man.
2020 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ. It is granted us through Baptism. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who justifies us. It has for its goal the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life. It is the most excellent work of God's mercy.
2021 Grace is the help God gives us to respond to our vocation of becoming his adopted sons. It introduces us into the intimacy of the Trinitarian life.
2022 The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man. Grace responds to the deepest yearnings of human freedom, calls freedom to cooperate with it, and perfects freedom.
2023 Sanctifying grace is the gratuitous gift of his life that God makes to us; it is infused by the Holy Spirit into the soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it.
2024 Sanctifying grace makes us "pleasing to God." Charisms, special graces of the Holy Spirit, are oriented to sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. God also acts through many actual graces, to be distinguished from habitual grace which is permanent in us.
2025 We can have merit in God's sight only because of God's free plan to associate man with the work of his grace. Merit is to be ascribed in the first place to the grace of God, and secondly to man's collaboration. Man's merit is due to God.
2026 The grace of the Holy Spirit can confer true merit on us, by virtue of our adoptive filiation, and in accordance with God's gratuitous justice. Charity is the principal source of merit in us before God.
2027 No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.
2028 "All Christians . . . are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the perfection of charity" (LG 40 § 2). "Christian perfection has but one limit, that of having none" (St. Gregory of Nyssa, De vita Mos.:PG 44, 300D).
2029 "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me" (Mt 16:24).
________________________________________
34 Rom 3:22; cf. 6:3-4.
35 Rom 6:8-11.
36 Cf. 1 Cor 12; Jn 15:1-4.
37 St. Athanasius, Ep. Serap. 1,24:PG 26,585 and 588.
38 Mt 4:17.
39 Council of Trent (1547): DS 1528.
40 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1529.
41 Rom 3:21-26.
42 Council of Trent (1547): DS 1525.
43 St. Augustine, In Jo. ev. 72,3:PL 35,1823.
44 Cf. Rom 7:22; Eph 3:16.
45 Rom 6:19,22.
46 Cf. Jn 1:12-18; 17:3; Rom 8:14-17; 2 Pet 1:3-4.
47 Cf. 1 Cor 2:7-9.
48 Cf. Jn 4:14; 7:38-39.
49 2 Cor 5:17-18.
50 St. Augustine, De gratia et libero arbitrio, 17:PL 44,901.
51 St. Augustine, De natura et gratia, 31:PL 44,264.
52 St. Augustine, Conf. 13,36 51:PL 32,868; cf. Gen 1:31.
53 Cf. LG 12.
54 Cf. 1 Cor 12.
55 Rom 12:6-8.
56 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1533-1534.
57 Mt 7:20.
58 Acts of the trial of St. Joan of Arc.
59 Roman Missal, Prefatio I de sanctis; Qui in Sanctorum concilio celebraris, et eorum coronando merita tua dona coronas, citing the "Doctor of grace," St. Augustine, En. in Ps. 102,7:PL 37,1321-1322.
60 Council of Trent (1547): DS 1546.
61 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1548.
62 St. Augustine, Sermo 298,4-5:PL 38,1367.
63 St. Thérèse of Lisieux, "Act of Offering" in Story of a Soul, tr. John Clarke (Washington DC: ICS, 1981), 277.
64 Rom 8:28-30.
65 LG 40 § 2.
66 Mt 5:48.
67 LG 40 § 2.
68 Cf. 2 Tim 4.
69 St. Gregory of Nyssa, Hom. in Cant. 8:PG 44,941C.
70 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1576.
71 Rev 21:2.
God bless!
In Christ
fr. Joseph
Jesus did tell us to be baptized and to participate in communion. But he did not say that this is how to be saved or receive grace. He said to "believe" in him.
The works of baptism and communion are done out of obedience but not to "achieve" grace. That given freely by trusting and believing in Christ's sacrifice that he did "once and for all." I have been humbly trying to understand the RCC interpretation of grace for a long time. I am sure that I am not being blinded by my pride. I want to be 100% sure that I am believing in what is right.
(Cristoiglesia) The belief in faith alone is a heresy condemned the only place it appears in Scripture by St. James. Even the demons believe. The Catholic Church does not teach that works merit salvation but instead we teach grace through faith. You are accusing us of the same heresy we have already condemned which is Pelagianism. Can you agree that works may come as the result of the believer cooperating with the Holy Spirit and being obedient to God and working within His will? Can you also agree that it is the Holy Spirit that makes us desire Him and become in a familial relationship with Him? Jesus did say that unless we eat His Body and drink His blood we have no life (eternal) in us. We desire His great feast and it is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that gives us that desire and hunger to do His commandment. Surely we do desire eternal life but we do not desire His Body and Blood because of this but it is the Holy Spirit that gives us the desire and compulsion to do His will.
ARTICLE 2
GRACE AND JUSTIFICATION
I. JUSTIFICATION
1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ" and through Baptism:34
But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35
1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ's Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36
[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37
1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."38 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.39
1990 Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God's merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.
1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or "justice") here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.
1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41
1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:
When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight.42
1994 Justification is the most excellent work of God's love made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that "the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth," because "heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect . . . will not pass away."43 He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy.
1995 The Holy Spirit is the master of the interior life. By giving birth to the "inner man,"44 justification entails the sanctification of his whole being:
Just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. . . . But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.45
II. GRACE
1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46
1997 Grace is a participation in the life of God. It introduces us into the intimacy of Trinitarian life: by Baptism the Christian participates in the grace of Christ, the Head of his Body. As an "adopted son" he can henceforth call God "Father," in union with the only Son. He receives the life of the Spirit who breathes charity into him and who forms the Church.
1998 This vocation to eternal life is supernatural. It depends entirely on God's gratuitous initiative, for he alone can reveal and give himself. It surpasses the power of human intellect and will, as that of every other creature.47
1999 The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification:48
Therefore if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself.49
2000 Sanctifying grace is an habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that perfects the soul itself to enable it to live with God, to act by his love. Habitual grace, the permanent disposition to live and act in keeping with God's call, is distinguished from actual graces which refer to God's interventions, whether at the beginning of conversion or in the course of the work of sanctification.
2001 The preparation of man for the reception of grace is already a work of grace. This latter is needed to arouse and sustain our collaboration in justification through faith, and in sanctification through charity. God brings to completion in us what he has begun, "since he who completes his work by cooperating with our will began by working so that we might will it:"50
Indeed we also work, but we are only collaborating with God who works, for his mercy has gone before us. It has gone before us so that we may be healed, and follows us so that once healed, we may be given life; it goes before us so that we may be called, and follows us so that we may be glorified; it goes before us so that we may live devoutly, and follows us so that we may always live with God: for without him we can do nothing.51
2002 God's free initiative demands man's free response, for God has created man in his image by conferring on him, along with freedom, the power to know him and love him. The soul only enters freely into the communion of love. God immediately touches and directly moves the heart of man. He has placed in man a longing for truth and goodness that only he can satisfy. The promises of "eternal life" respond, beyond all hope, to this desire:
If at the end of your very good works . . ., you rested on the seventh day, it was to foretell by the voice of your book that at the end of our works, which are indeed "very good" since you have given them to us, we shall also rest in you on the sabbath of eternal life.52
2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning "favor," "gratuitous gift," "benefit."53 Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.54
2004 Among the special graces ought to be mentioned the graces of state that accompany the exercise of the responsibilities of the Christian life and of the ministries within the Church:
Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; he who teaches, in his teaching; he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who contributes, in liberality; he who gives aid, with zeal; he who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.55
2005 Since it belongs to the supernatural order, grace escapes our experience and cannot be known except by faith. We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved.56 However, according to the Lord's words "Thus you will know them by their fruits"57 - reflection on God's blessings in our life and in the lives of the saints offers us a guarantee that grace is at work in us and spurs us on to an ever greater faith and an attitude of trustful poverty.
A pleasing illustration of this attitude is found in the reply of St. Joan of Arc to a question posed as a trap by her ecclesiastical judges: "Asked if she knew that she was in God's grace, she replied: 'If I am not, may it please God to put me in it; if I am, may it please God to keep me there.'"58
III. MERIT
You are glorified in the assembly of your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits you are crowning your own gifts.59
2006 The term "merit" refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.
2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.
2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.
2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God's gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us "co-heirs" with Christ and worthy of obtaining "the promised inheritance of eternal life."60 The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness.61 "Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God's gifts."62
2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God's wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.
2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.
After earth's exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the fatherland, but I do not want to lay up merits for heaven. I want to work for your love alone. . . . In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands, for I do not ask you, Lord, to count my works. All our justice is blemished in your eyes. I wish, then, to be clothed in your own justice and to receive from your love the eternal possession of yourself.63
IV. CHRISTIAN HOLINESS
2012 "We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him . . . For those whom he fore knew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified."64
2013 "All Christians in any state or walk of life are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the perfection of charity."65 All are called to holiness: "Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."66
In order to reach this perfection the faithful should use the strength dealt out to them by Christ's gift, so that . . . doing the will of the Father in everything, they may wholeheartedly devote themselves to the glory of God and to the service of their neighbor. Thus the holiness of the People of God will grow in fruitful abundance, as is clearly shown in the history of the Church through the lives of so many saints.67
2014 Spiritual progress tends toward ever more intimate union with Christ. This union is called "mystical" because it participates in the mystery of Christ through the sacraments - "the holy mysteries" - and, in him, in the mystery of the Holy Trinity. God calls us all to this intimate union with him, even if the special graces or extraordinary signs of this mystical life are granted only to some for the sake of manifesting the gratuitous gift given to all.
2015 The way of perfection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle.68 Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes:
He who climbs never stops going from beginning to beginning, through beginnings that have no end. He never stops desiring what he already knows.69
2016 The children of our holy mother the Church rightly hope for the grace of final perseverance and the recompense of God their Father for the good works accomplished with his grace in communion with Jesus.70 Keeping the same rule of life, believers share the "blessed hope" of those whom the divine mercy gathers into the "holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."71
IN BRIEF
2017 The grace of the Holy Spirit confers upon us the righteousness of God. Uniting us by faith and Baptism to the Passion and Resurrection of Christ, the Spirit makes us sharers in his life.
2018 Like conversion, justification has two aspects. Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, and so accepts forgiveness and righteousness from on high.
2019 Justification includes the remission of sins, sanctification, and the renewal of the inner man.
2020 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ. It is granted us through Baptism. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who justifies us. It has for its goal the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life. It is the most excellent work of God's mercy.
2021 Grace is the help God gives us to respond to our vocation of becoming his adopted sons. It introduces us into the intimacy of the Trinitarian life.
2022 The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man. Grace responds to the deepest yearnings of human freedom, calls freedom to cooperate with it, and perfects freedom.
2023 Sanctifying grace is the gratuitous gift of his life that God makes to us; it is infused by the Holy Spirit into the soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it.
2024 Sanctifying grace makes us "pleasing to God." Charisms, special graces of the Holy Spirit, are oriented to sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. God also acts through many actual graces, to be distinguished from habitual grace which is permanent in us.
2025 We can have merit in God's sight only because of God's free plan to associate man with the work of his grace. Merit is to be ascribed in the first place to the grace of God, and secondly to man's collaboration. Man's merit is due to God.
2026 The grace of the Holy Spirit can confer true merit on us, by virtue of our adoptive filiation, and in accordance with God's gratuitous justice. Charity is the principal source of merit in us before God.
2027 No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.
2028 "All Christians . . . are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the perfection of charity" (LG 40 § 2). "Christian perfection has but one limit, that of having none" (St. Gregory of Nyssa, De vita Mos.:PG 44, 300D).
2029 "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me" (Mt 16:24).
________________________________________
34 Rom 3:22; cf. 6:3-4.
35 Rom 6:8-11.
36 Cf. 1 Cor 12; Jn 15:1-4.
37 St. Athanasius, Ep. Serap. 1,24:PG 26,585 and 588.
38 Mt 4:17.
39 Council of Trent (1547): DS 1528.
40 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1529.
41 Rom 3:21-26.
42 Council of Trent (1547): DS 1525.
43 St. Augustine, In Jo. ev. 72,3:PL 35,1823.
44 Cf. Rom 7:22; Eph 3:16.
45 Rom 6:19,22.
46 Cf. Jn 1:12-18; 17:3; Rom 8:14-17; 2 Pet 1:3-4.
47 Cf. 1 Cor 2:7-9.
48 Cf. Jn 4:14; 7:38-39.
49 2 Cor 5:17-18.
50 St. Augustine, De gratia et libero arbitrio, 17:PL 44,901.
51 St. Augustine, De natura et gratia, 31:PL 44,264.
52 St. Augustine, Conf. 13,36 51:PL 32,868; cf. Gen 1:31.
53 Cf. LG 12.
54 Cf. 1 Cor 12.
55 Rom 12:6-8.
56 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1533-1534.
57 Mt 7:20.
58 Acts of the trial of St. Joan of Arc.
59 Roman Missal, Prefatio I de sanctis; Qui in Sanctorum concilio celebraris, et eorum coronando merita tua dona coronas, citing the "Doctor of grace," St. Augustine, En. in Ps. 102,7:PL 37,1321-1322.
60 Council of Trent (1547): DS 1546.
61 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1548.
62 St. Augustine, Sermo 298,4-5:PL 38,1367.
63 St. Thérèse of Lisieux, "Act of Offering" in Story of a Soul, tr. John Clarke (Washington DC: ICS, 1981), 277.
64 Rom 8:28-30.
65 LG 40 § 2.
66 Mt 5:48.
67 LG 40 § 2.
68 Cf. 2 Tim 4.
69 St. Gregory of Nyssa, Hom. in Cant. 8:PG 44,941C.
70 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1576.
71 Rev 21:2.
God bless!
In Christ
fr. Joseph
Discussion with Richardatf about the Communion of Saints and Soul Sleep
(richardatf) Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
(Cristoiglesis) OK, would you mind telling me what this verse has to do with what we are discussing? In any case, this is what the Church teaches from the New Testament that we wrote.
(richardatf) talking about Jesus here, but you pray to dead "saints" for intercession, and what is intercession asked for if not for salvation/forgiveness of sins?
(Cristoiglesia) Calling a saint dead is an oxymoron. One cannot be a saint and be dead in Christ. Yes we are instructed in Scriptures to pray for each other out of love for one another.
This is from my blog:
First of all it is disingenuous to state that the practice of praying for each other has no biblical foundation, we are instructed in Scripture to have a prayer life for others as it is part of God’s commandment to love one another.
(2Co 5:8 DRB) But we are confident and have a good will to be absent rather from the body and to be present with the Lord.
The Catholic Church does not teach that it is absolutely necessary for one to ask for the intercession of saints for salvation. The Church does teach that prayer to God is necessary for salvation for all believers. For a Catholic it would be wrong to ignore the liturgical worship offered to God at feast days for the saints and the prayers asking for their intercession.
The Communion of Saints is a dogma of the ancient Church and is recorded in the apostles Creed. It simply states that the faithful because of their relationship with Christ are alive even after the death of their flesh and worship with us. To us the Church is made up of the Church militant who represents all those believers living out their hope in the flesh.
(Phi 2:12 DRB) Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.
(Phi 2:13 DRB) For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will.
It consists of the Church Suffering who are those who are temporarily in need of further purgation from sin so that they may enjoy the presence of God.
(2Ma 12:46 DRB) It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
Lastly, the Communion of the Saints consists of those who have won the race:
(Phi 3:14 DRB) I press towards the mark, to the prize of the supernal vocation of God in Christ Jesus.
Their immortal souls are in heaven in God’s presence:
(Rev 5:8 DRB) And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
The universal stream connecting all of God’s creation is His love, which we take on in our baptism into our journey towards sanctification. This is not an emotional but a desire placed in us by the Spirit of God that endures as a desire for those other than ourselves and this love extends even to our enemies. This is truly a love that comes only from God and is a foreign concept and nonsense to those who have not received God’s salvific grace. This desire within our souls does not end with the death of our flesh but continues into eternity where the saints through their intercession in prayer encourage us in our race and assist us to endure unto our union with God.
I think that some people of faith, who do not understand the Communion of Saints, somehow believe that asking saints to pray for us is detracting from our love or our trust in God. In truth it is impossible, if we truly love as God commands and has given us the grace to understand, not to pray to those whom we love and in turn we expect them to return that same love to us by praying for us and presenting our prayers to God.
(richardatf) Speaking of dead folk. Your damnable church teaches that people go to heaven at the time of theiir death.
1st Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
I guess, according to your church, the souls in heaven are stuck back into their bodies for the resurrection? stupidity! Why was Lazarus happy to be brought back from the dead if he was ripped out of heaven?
(Cristoiglesia) The Scriptures are very clear that our souls are immortal. Some will say that the soul is not immortal such as Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses. Their doctrine is used to deny the existence of saints in heaven and thus the “Communion of Saints.”
(Isa 14:9 DRB) Hell below was in an uproar to meet thee at thy coming, it stirred up the giants for thee. All the princes of the earth are risen up from their thrones, all the princes of nations.
(Isa 14:10 DRB) All shall answer, and say to thee: Thou also art wounded as well as we, thou art become like unto us.
(Isa 14:11 DRB) Thy pride is brought down to hell, thy carcass is fallen down: under thee shall the moth be strewed, and worms shall be thy covering.
(Isa 14:12 DRB) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?
(Isa 14:13 DRB) And thou saidst in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north.
(Isa 14:14 DRB) I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High.
(Isa 14:15 DRB) But yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, into the depth of the pit.
(Isa 14:16 DRB) They that shall see thee, shall turn toward thee, and behold thee. Is this the man that troubled the earth, that shook kingdoms,
(Isa 14:17 DRB) That made the world a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof, that opened not the prison to his prisoners?
(1Pe 3:19 DRB) In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison:
In both the verses from Isaiah and the verses from 1 Peter they indicate that the dead are conscious. Could Christ have preached to the spirits in heaven if they were asleep? Of course, He could not.
The following verses further contradict Ellen White’s and Charles Russell’s theory that the soul sleeps until the Parousia. Death simply allows the saint to be present with the Lord. The body is just a tent that does not last and man cannot kill the soul which lives after the death of our bodies and the saints in heaven offer our prayers to God while living in happiness.
(2Co 5:8 DRB) But we are confident and have a good will to be absent rather from the body and to be present with the Lord.
(2Co 5:1 DRB) For we know, if our earthly house of this habitation be dissolved, that we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in heaven.
(2Co 5:2 DRB) For in this also we groan, desiring to be clothed upon with our habitation that is from heaven.
(2Co 5:3 DRB) Yet so that we be found clothed, not naked.
(2Co 5:4 DRB) For we also, who are in this tabernacle, do groan, being burthened; because we would not be unclothed, but clothed upon, that that which is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
(2Pe 1:13 DRB) But I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance.
(Mat 10:28 DRB) And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell.
(Rev 6:9 DRB) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
(Rev 6:10 DRB) And they cried with a loud voice, saying: How long, O Lord (Holy and True), dost thou not judge and revenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
(Rev 6:11 DRB) And white robes were given to every one of them one; And it was said to them that they should rest for a little time till their fellow servants and their brethren, who are to be slain even as they, should be filled up.
(Rev 5:8 DRB) And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
(Rev 14:13 DRB) And I heard a voice from heaven, saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord. From henceforth now, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours. For their works follow them.
We also learn from Scriptures that the soul lives eternal in hell as well as heaven:
(Rev 14:11 DRB) And the smoke of their torments, shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night, who have adored the beast and his image and whoever receiveth the character of his name.
(Mat 25:41 DRB) Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels.
(Mat 25:42 DRB) For I was hungry and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty and you gave me not to drink.
(Mat 25:43 DRB) I was a stranger and you took me not in: naked and you covered me not: sick and in prison and you did not visit me.
(Mat 25:44 DRB) Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to thee?
(Mat 25:45 DRB) Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen: I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.
(Mat 25:46 DRB) And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
(Luk 16:19 DRB) There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and feasted sumptuously every day.
(Luk 16:20 DRB) And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,
(Luk 16:21 DRB) Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table. And no one did give him: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
(Luk 16:22 DRB) And it came to pass that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell.
(Luk 16:23 DRB) And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom:
(Luk 16:24 DRB) And he cried and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame.
(Luk 16:25 DRB) And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted and thou art tormented.
(Luk 16:26 DRB) And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you cannot, nor from thence come hither.
(Luk 16:27 DRB) And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee that thou wouldst send him to my father's house, for I have five brethren,
(Luk 16:28 DRB) That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments.
(Luk 16:29 DRB) And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them.
(Luk 16:30 DRB) But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.
(Luk 16:31 DRB) And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.
(Mar 9:42 DRB) (9:41) And whosoever shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me: it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck and he were cast into the sea.
(Mar 9:43 DRB) (9:42) And if thy hand scandalize thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life, maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into unquenchable fire:
(Mar 9:44 DRB) (9:43) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished.
(Mar 9:45 DRB) (9:44) And if thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter lame into life everlasting than having two feet to be cast into the hell of unquenchable fire:
(Mar 9:46 DRB) (9:45) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished.
(Mar 9:47 DRB) (9:46) And if thy eye scandalize thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee with one eye to enter into the kingdom of God than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire:
(Mar 9:48 DRB) (9:47) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished.
(Mat 18:8 DRB) And if thy hand, or thy foot, scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee to go into life maimed or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into everlasting fire.
(Mat 8:12 DRB) But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Certainly one can see from all the evidence in Scriptures that soul sleep is not a supportable doctrine.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(Cristoiglesis) OK, would you mind telling me what this verse has to do with what we are discussing? In any case, this is what the Church teaches from the New Testament that we wrote.
(richardatf) talking about Jesus here, but you pray to dead "saints" for intercession, and what is intercession asked for if not for salvation/forgiveness of sins?
(Cristoiglesia) Calling a saint dead is an oxymoron. One cannot be a saint and be dead in Christ. Yes we are instructed in Scriptures to pray for each other out of love for one another.
This is from my blog:
First of all it is disingenuous to state that the practice of praying for each other has no biblical foundation, we are instructed in Scripture to have a prayer life for others as it is part of God’s commandment to love one another.
(2Co 5:8 DRB) But we are confident and have a good will to be absent rather from the body and to be present with the Lord.
The Catholic Church does not teach that it is absolutely necessary for one to ask for the intercession of saints for salvation. The Church does teach that prayer to God is necessary for salvation for all believers. For a Catholic it would be wrong to ignore the liturgical worship offered to God at feast days for the saints and the prayers asking for their intercession.
The Communion of Saints is a dogma of the ancient Church and is recorded in the apostles Creed. It simply states that the faithful because of their relationship with Christ are alive even after the death of their flesh and worship with us. To us the Church is made up of the Church militant who represents all those believers living out their hope in the flesh.
(Phi 2:12 DRB) Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.
(Phi 2:13 DRB) For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will.
It consists of the Church Suffering who are those who are temporarily in need of further purgation from sin so that they may enjoy the presence of God.
(2Ma 12:46 DRB) It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
Lastly, the Communion of the Saints consists of those who have won the race:
(Phi 3:14 DRB) I press towards the mark, to the prize of the supernal vocation of God in Christ Jesus.
Their immortal souls are in heaven in God’s presence:
(Rev 5:8 DRB) And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
The universal stream connecting all of God’s creation is His love, which we take on in our baptism into our journey towards sanctification. This is not an emotional but a desire placed in us by the Spirit of God that endures as a desire for those other than ourselves and this love extends even to our enemies. This is truly a love that comes only from God and is a foreign concept and nonsense to those who have not received God’s salvific grace. This desire within our souls does not end with the death of our flesh but continues into eternity where the saints through their intercession in prayer encourage us in our race and assist us to endure unto our union with God.
I think that some people of faith, who do not understand the Communion of Saints, somehow believe that asking saints to pray for us is detracting from our love or our trust in God. In truth it is impossible, if we truly love as God commands and has given us the grace to understand, not to pray to those whom we love and in turn we expect them to return that same love to us by praying for us and presenting our prayers to God.
(richardatf) Speaking of dead folk. Your damnable church teaches that people go to heaven at the time of theiir death.
1st Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
I guess, according to your church, the souls in heaven are stuck back into their bodies for the resurrection? stupidity! Why was Lazarus happy to be brought back from the dead if he was ripped out of heaven?
(Cristoiglesia) The Scriptures are very clear that our souls are immortal. Some will say that the soul is not immortal such as Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses. Their doctrine is used to deny the existence of saints in heaven and thus the “Communion of Saints.”
(Isa 14:9 DRB) Hell below was in an uproar to meet thee at thy coming, it stirred up the giants for thee. All the princes of the earth are risen up from their thrones, all the princes of nations.
(Isa 14:10 DRB) All shall answer, and say to thee: Thou also art wounded as well as we, thou art become like unto us.
(Isa 14:11 DRB) Thy pride is brought down to hell, thy carcass is fallen down: under thee shall the moth be strewed, and worms shall be thy covering.
(Isa 14:12 DRB) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?
(Isa 14:13 DRB) And thou saidst in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north.
(Isa 14:14 DRB) I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High.
(Isa 14:15 DRB) But yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, into the depth of the pit.
(Isa 14:16 DRB) They that shall see thee, shall turn toward thee, and behold thee. Is this the man that troubled the earth, that shook kingdoms,
(Isa 14:17 DRB) That made the world a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof, that opened not the prison to his prisoners?
(1Pe 3:19 DRB) In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison:
In both the verses from Isaiah and the verses from 1 Peter they indicate that the dead are conscious. Could Christ have preached to the spirits in heaven if they were asleep? Of course, He could not.
The following verses further contradict Ellen White’s and Charles Russell’s theory that the soul sleeps until the Parousia. Death simply allows the saint to be present with the Lord. The body is just a tent that does not last and man cannot kill the soul which lives after the death of our bodies and the saints in heaven offer our prayers to God while living in happiness.
(2Co 5:8 DRB) But we are confident and have a good will to be absent rather from the body and to be present with the Lord.
(2Co 5:1 DRB) For we know, if our earthly house of this habitation be dissolved, that we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in heaven.
(2Co 5:2 DRB) For in this also we groan, desiring to be clothed upon with our habitation that is from heaven.
(2Co 5:3 DRB) Yet so that we be found clothed, not naked.
(2Co 5:4 DRB) For we also, who are in this tabernacle, do groan, being burthened; because we would not be unclothed, but clothed upon, that that which is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
(2Pe 1:13 DRB) But I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance.
(Mat 10:28 DRB) And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell.
(Rev 6:9 DRB) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
(Rev 6:10 DRB) And they cried with a loud voice, saying: How long, O Lord (Holy and True), dost thou not judge and revenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
(Rev 6:11 DRB) And white robes were given to every one of them one; And it was said to them that they should rest for a little time till their fellow servants and their brethren, who are to be slain even as they, should be filled up.
(Rev 5:8 DRB) And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
(Rev 14:13 DRB) And I heard a voice from heaven, saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord. From henceforth now, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours. For their works follow them.
We also learn from Scriptures that the soul lives eternal in hell as well as heaven:
(Rev 14:11 DRB) And the smoke of their torments, shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night, who have adored the beast and his image and whoever receiveth the character of his name.
(Mat 25:41 DRB) Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels.
(Mat 25:42 DRB) For I was hungry and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty and you gave me not to drink.
(Mat 25:43 DRB) I was a stranger and you took me not in: naked and you covered me not: sick and in prison and you did not visit me.
(Mat 25:44 DRB) Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to thee?
(Mat 25:45 DRB) Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen: I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.
(Mat 25:46 DRB) And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
(Luk 16:19 DRB) There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and feasted sumptuously every day.
(Luk 16:20 DRB) And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,
(Luk 16:21 DRB) Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table. And no one did give him: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
(Luk 16:22 DRB) And it came to pass that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell.
(Luk 16:23 DRB) And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom:
(Luk 16:24 DRB) And he cried and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame.
(Luk 16:25 DRB) And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted and thou art tormented.
(Luk 16:26 DRB) And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you cannot, nor from thence come hither.
(Luk 16:27 DRB) And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee that thou wouldst send him to my father's house, for I have five brethren,
(Luk 16:28 DRB) That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments.
(Luk 16:29 DRB) And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them.
(Luk 16:30 DRB) But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.
(Luk 16:31 DRB) And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.
(Mar 9:42 DRB) (9:41) And whosoever shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me: it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck and he were cast into the sea.
(Mar 9:43 DRB) (9:42) And if thy hand scandalize thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life, maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into unquenchable fire:
(Mar 9:44 DRB) (9:43) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished.
(Mar 9:45 DRB) (9:44) And if thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter lame into life everlasting than having two feet to be cast into the hell of unquenchable fire:
(Mar 9:46 DRB) (9:45) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished.
(Mar 9:47 DRB) (9:46) And if thy eye scandalize thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee with one eye to enter into the kingdom of God than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire:
(Mar 9:48 DRB) (9:47) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished.
(Mat 18:8 DRB) And if thy hand, or thy foot, scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee to go into life maimed or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into everlasting fire.
(Mat 8:12 DRB) But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Certainly one can see from all the evidence in Scriptures that soul sleep is not a supportable doctrine.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Discussion with Richaratf about Matthew 23:9
(richardatf) Matthew 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Call anyone father recently? Do you allow others to call YOU father?
(Cristoiglesia)Sure I call the Father in heaven Father. I also called my dad father and my fellow priests. Allow me to show you what happens when one uses eisegesis to understand Scriptures or take them out of context with this from my blog:
From the early Church we find that clergy were addressed as father. There are those with little knowledge of history or hermeneutical discipline such as understanding Scriptures within context, who believe that the Bible prohibits one from calling a priest father. The words they rely on come directly from Christ:
(Mat 23:9 DRB) And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.
Keeping the verse in context let us look at the verse preceding this verse:
(Mat 23:8 DRB) But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master: and all you are brethren.
Rabbi means teacher and the Latin word for teacher is doctor so anyone using these terms as well are violating the literal interpretation of the text.
Let us look at the verse after verse 9:
(Mat 23:10 DRB) Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, Christ.
There is no way that the interpretation could be correct if one reads and understands the Matthew passage in context. He is clearly teaching that one should not look to any human authority as our teacher, father, master, doctor or other titles of respect but instead give to God those things that are reserved for Him. Do you also refuse to call people doctor, teacher, professor, mister, or master? All of these are forbidden as well if we are to accept a literal understanding.
Context also requires that we investigate what the other Scriptures say as well as the understanding of these words by those who followed Christ. There are many instances where the writers of the New Testament contradict a literal understanding of not calling a man father, teacher or master. Consider the following verses:
(Act 5:34 DRB) But one in the council rising up, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, respected by all the people, commanded the men to be put forth a little while.
(Col 4:1 DRB) Masters, do to your servants that which is just and equal: knowing that you also have a master in heaven.
(2Ti 1:11 DRB) Wherein I am appointed a preacher and an apostle and teacher of the Gentiles.
Let us examine the statements of St. Stephen to see if he understood Christ to be speaking literally….In is soliloquy (Acts Chapter 7) before the Sanhedrin before his stoning to martyrdom he used the term father in referring to Abraham Isaac and Jacob as fathers and also to his Israelite ancestors as fathers.
St. John the beloved disciple also did not understand Christ to be teaching literally as we can see in the following verses:
(1Jn 2:13 DRB) I write unto you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.
(1Jn 2:14 DRB) I write unto you, babes, because you have known the Father. I write unto you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and you have overcome the wicked one.
(1Jn 2:15 DRB) Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him.
(1Jn 2:16 DRB) For all that is in the world is the concupiscence of the flesh and the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life, which is not of the Father but is of the world.
St. Paul also had a different understanding of Christ’s words than the literalists:
(1Co 4:14 DRB) I write not these things to confound you: but I admonish you as my dearest children.
(1Co 4:15 DRB) For if you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, by the gospel, I have begotten you.
(1Co 4:16 DRB) Wherefore, I beseech you, be ye followers of me as I also am of Christ.
St. Paul was speaking of the fact that he is called to shepherd the flock as are all priests. We not only give birth to the Christian through Baptism but also nourish the faithful with the Holy Eucharist and God’s Word. We care for them and bind their spiritual wounds through the delivery of the Sacraments. It is no wonder that we are called father as we care for our Church family as a father cares for his own family.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Call anyone father recently? Do you allow others to call YOU father?
(Cristoiglesia)Sure I call the Father in heaven Father. I also called my dad father and my fellow priests. Allow me to show you what happens when one uses eisegesis to understand Scriptures or take them out of context with this from my blog:
From the early Church we find that clergy were addressed as father. There are those with little knowledge of history or hermeneutical discipline such as understanding Scriptures within context, who believe that the Bible prohibits one from calling a priest father. The words they rely on come directly from Christ:
(Mat 23:9 DRB) And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.
Keeping the verse in context let us look at the verse preceding this verse:
(Mat 23:8 DRB) But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master: and all you are brethren.
Rabbi means teacher and the Latin word for teacher is doctor so anyone using these terms as well are violating the literal interpretation of the text.
Let us look at the verse after verse 9:
(Mat 23:10 DRB) Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, Christ.
There is no way that the interpretation could be correct if one reads and understands the Matthew passage in context. He is clearly teaching that one should not look to any human authority as our teacher, father, master, doctor or other titles of respect but instead give to God those things that are reserved for Him. Do you also refuse to call people doctor, teacher, professor, mister, or master? All of these are forbidden as well if we are to accept a literal understanding.
Context also requires that we investigate what the other Scriptures say as well as the understanding of these words by those who followed Christ. There are many instances where the writers of the New Testament contradict a literal understanding of not calling a man father, teacher or master. Consider the following verses:
(Act 5:34 DRB) But one in the council rising up, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, respected by all the people, commanded the men to be put forth a little while.
(Col 4:1 DRB) Masters, do to your servants that which is just and equal: knowing that you also have a master in heaven.
(2Ti 1:11 DRB) Wherein I am appointed a preacher and an apostle and teacher of the Gentiles.
Let us examine the statements of St. Stephen to see if he understood Christ to be speaking literally….In is soliloquy (Acts Chapter 7) before the Sanhedrin before his stoning to martyrdom he used the term father in referring to Abraham Isaac and Jacob as fathers and also to his Israelite ancestors as fathers.
St. John the beloved disciple also did not understand Christ to be teaching literally as we can see in the following verses:
(1Jn 2:13 DRB) I write unto you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.
(1Jn 2:14 DRB) I write unto you, babes, because you have known the Father. I write unto you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and you have overcome the wicked one.
(1Jn 2:15 DRB) Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him.
(1Jn 2:16 DRB) For all that is in the world is the concupiscence of the flesh and the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life, which is not of the Father but is of the world.
St. Paul also had a different understanding of Christ’s words than the literalists:
(1Co 4:14 DRB) I write not these things to confound you: but I admonish you as my dearest children.
(1Co 4:15 DRB) For if you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, by the gospel, I have begotten you.
(1Co 4:16 DRB) Wherefore, I beseech you, be ye followers of me as I also am of Christ.
St. Paul was speaking of the fact that he is called to shepherd the flock as are all priests. We not only give birth to the Christian through Baptism but also nourish the faithful with the Holy Eucharist and God’s Word. We care for them and bind their spiritual wounds through the delivery of the Sacraments. It is no wonder that we are called father as we care for our Church family as a father cares for his own family.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Discussion with richardatf about Idolatry
(richardatf) The picture is not an idol granted, the statue is. The foot of the statue of "St Peter" (which is actually a statue of the Roman god Jupiter) has been worn away by all the lips of the worshiping catholic people who have kissed it. How many times have you been on your knees before a statue of Mary? This is worship.
(Cristoiglesia)A statue is not necessarily an idol. It can also be a work of art. For it to be an idol one has to believe it to be a God and to worship it as a God. Catholics are forbidden in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to worship anyone or anything but God. Here is what the Catechism says:
Idolatry
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46
2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47
How is a statue of St. Peter a statue of the Roman God Jupiter? Are you trying to say that they are one in the same person? Excuse me for saying this but that is an idiotic assumption. Are you trying also to draw a parallel that kissing an object or I would guess also a person is somehow in your mind worshipping them? I assume you kiss your loved ones, does that mean that they are your Gods and you worship them? How do you come to this leap of logic?
I have never prayed on my knees before a statue of the blessed mother but I am not opposed to it. Why would you be? I even pray while kneeling beside my bed. In your twisted logic I guess I would be accused of worshipping my bed.
(richardatf) The catholic symbol for the "host" is a sun, put it in a well named sunburst monstrance and we see only one example of sunworship in catholicism.
No, the sun is not a symbol of the host in the Blessed Sacrament. There is no sun worship in Catholicism. The truly real and substantial Body of our Lord is placed in the monstrance which depicts by the rays of light coming from His Body that He is truly the light of the world and the object of our worship.
John 8:12 (King James Version)
12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(Cristoiglesia)A statue is not necessarily an idol. It can also be a work of art. For it to be an idol one has to believe it to be a God and to worship it as a God. Catholics are forbidden in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to worship anyone or anything but God. Here is what the Catechism says:
Idolatry
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46
2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47
How is a statue of St. Peter a statue of the Roman God Jupiter? Are you trying to say that they are one in the same person? Excuse me for saying this but that is an idiotic assumption. Are you trying also to draw a parallel that kissing an object or I would guess also a person is somehow in your mind worshipping them? I assume you kiss your loved ones, does that mean that they are your Gods and you worship them? How do you come to this leap of logic?
I have never prayed on my knees before a statue of the blessed mother but I am not opposed to it. Why would you be? I even pray while kneeling beside my bed. In your twisted logic I guess I would be accused of worshipping my bed.
(richardatf) The catholic symbol for the "host" is a sun, put it in a well named sunburst monstrance and we see only one example of sunworship in catholicism.
No, the sun is not a symbol of the host in the Blessed Sacrament. There is no sun worship in Catholicism. The truly real and substantial Body of our Lord is placed in the monstrance which depicts by the rays of light coming from His Body that He is truly the light of the world and the object of our worship.
John 8:12 (King James Version)
12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
25 July, 2009
(LottaLou) Everyone else is born with sin nature and sin. Since the wages of sin is death, all die physically. None of the Saints are raised up flesh & bone like Jesus raised up yet. Their souls R made spiritual; Only their spiritual souls are in heaven. Not their corruptible body. The body has to be changed in the twinkle of an eye yet.
(Cristoiglesia) I agree that we are all born with the original sin of our first parents. However, I believe that you are forgetting about Elijah who was also raised up to heaven. We can also speculate about Moses as well as the Scriptures suggests that he was assumed into heaven also. So it is not unreasonable that our Lord would do the same for His mother. We also have the same situation as with Moses where there is no grave for the mother of God who was greatly honored by the early Church during her life. So while being unusual, it would be reasonable for Jesus not to want his mother to be corrupted by the results of death.
(Cristoiglesia) Jesus redemptive work transcends time & offers salvation to all past, present and future. The blessed mother simply received this grace at her conception.
(LottaLou)I agree but I don't understand receiving grace at conception.
(Cristoiglesia) We both can agree, I assume, that it is our Lord who provided for our salvific grace. The teaching of the Church from Pentecost onward is that Jesus provided this grace at the conception of the blessed mother of God to prepare her for her role in salvation. It had to be at the moment of conception otherwise original sin would be present as this sin nature is carried by the semen as we discussed before. The Grace applied by God prevented this sin nature by the salvific grace being applied simultaneously with conception. Theologically, it is impossible for God to be born of an impure vessel and the Archangel Gabriel recognized the blessed state of the blessed mother calling her “full of grace”. Being full of grace does not leave room for anything but salvific grace and the angel gives witness to this fact. Within her there was no room for sin or even a sinful nature by God’s grace.
(LottaLou)Specifically, what is the Gnostic beliefs which is the Vineyard sects?
(Cristoiglesia) John Wimber the founder of the Vineyard movement used to say that “God is greater than His Word” and would suggest that revelation does not have to be in accordance with Scripture to be true. Wimber taught that these revelations could indeed be contradictory and still be true. Some speculate this comes from his Quaker roots but His teaching that inner revelation is above or equal to the Word of God came from Quakerism. Is this why he has traces of the belief in the supremacy of the inner revelation over and above the written word? Wimber wrote in his book, "Power Evangelism", Wimber explains:
"God uses our experiences to show us more fully what He teaches us in scripture, many times toppling or altering elements of our theology and world view".
Christian Research Institute says the following about his teaching:
"There appears to be little emphasis on teaching the Bible per se. This lack stands in contrast to the very strong Bible teaching at Calvary Chapel, a church with which The Vineyard was once associated . . .. While Bible teaching is not emphasized enough, the role of experience in the Christian life appears to be somewhat over-emphasized. People in the Vineyard frequently seem to be willing to allow their spiritual experiences be self-authenticating".
(LottaLou)You accused my Pastor as not being called of the LORD and teaching Gnostic beliefs. So what specific Gnostic belief are you referring to?
And you do realize that sometimes what you thought I wrote, I didn't mean... So that is mostly because our writing styles are different.
(Cristoiglesia) I said that no one is called to separate anyone from Christ’s Church. That would never be God’s will because He would be contradicting His own prayer where He prayed that we all be one in His Church like He and the Father are one. He could have been called to teach but not to pastor because that act alone is separating some from Christ’ Church. What you wrote suggest that your pastor taught that revelation is equal to or above God’s Word as if it is an extra biblical revelation that not necessarily has to conform to Scriptural truth. Additionally, You suggested that subjective personal inner experiential revelation is to be trusted equally with Scripture or even above Scripture. As an example, when you have been faced with difficult interpretations during our discussions you have fallen back on inner feelings or “gnosis” as to what is the truth being conveyed by Scripture. This leaves room for great error in my opinion and for the great doctor of the Church St. Irenaeus in His work “Against Heresies”.
(LottaLou) Also, I am learning more about Christianity from reading what you write. So even if I don't agree with everything you write, I still find it interesting.
(Cristoiglesia) Thank you, I feel the same way. Iron sharpens Iron.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(Cristoiglesia) I agree that we are all born with the original sin of our first parents. However, I believe that you are forgetting about Elijah who was also raised up to heaven. We can also speculate about Moses as well as the Scriptures suggests that he was assumed into heaven also. So it is not unreasonable that our Lord would do the same for His mother. We also have the same situation as with Moses where there is no grave for the mother of God who was greatly honored by the early Church during her life. So while being unusual, it would be reasonable for Jesus not to want his mother to be corrupted by the results of death.
(Cristoiglesia) Jesus redemptive work transcends time & offers salvation to all past, present and future. The blessed mother simply received this grace at her conception.
(LottaLou)I agree but I don't understand receiving grace at conception.
(Cristoiglesia) We both can agree, I assume, that it is our Lord who provided for our salvific grace. The teaching of the Church from Pentecost onward is that Jesus provided this grace at the conception of the blessed mother of God to prepare her for her role in salvation. It had to be at the moment of conception otherwise original sin would be present as this sin nature is carried by the semen as we discussed before. The Grace applied by God prevented this sin nature by the salvific grace being applied simultaneously with conception. Theologically, it is impossible for God to be born of an impure vessel and the Archangel Gabriel recognized the blessed state of the blessed mother calling her “full of grace”. Being full of grace does not leave room for anything but salvific grace and the angel gives witness to this fact. Within her there was no room for sin or even a sinful nature by God’s grace.
(LottaLou)Specifically, what is the Gnostic beliefs which is the Vineyard sects?
(Cristoiglesia) John Wimber the founder of the Vineyard movement used to say that “God is greater than His Word” and would suggest that revelation does not have to be in accordance with Scripture to be true. Wimber taught that these revelations could indeed be contradictory and still be true. Some speculate this comes from his Quaker roots but His teaching that inner revelation is above or equal to the Word of God came from Quakerism. Is this why he has traces of the belief in the supremacy of the inner revelation over and above the written word? Wimber wrote in his book, "Power Evangelism", Wimber explains:
"God uses our experiences to show us more fully what He teaches us in scripture, many times toppling or altering elements of our theology and world view".
Christian Research Institute says the following about his teaching:
"There appears to be little emphasis on teaching the Bible per se. This lack stands in contrast to the very strong Bible teaching at Calvary Chapel, a church with which The Vineyard was once associated . . .. While Bible teaching is not emphasized enough, the role of experience in the Christian life appears to be somewhat over-emphasized. People in the Vineyard frequently seem to be willing to allow their spiritual experiences be self-authenticating".
(LottaLou)You accused my Pastor as not being called of the LORD and teaching Gnostic beliefs. So what specific Gnostic belief are you referring to?
And you do realize that sometimes what you thought I wrote, I didn't mean... So that is mostly because our writing styles are different.
(Cristoiglesia) I said that no one is called to separate anyone from Christ’s Church. That would never be God’s will because He would be contradicting His own prayer where He prayed that we all be one in His Church like He and the Father are one. He could have been called to teach but not to pastor because that act alone is separating some from Christ’ Church. What you wrote suggest that your pastor taught that revelation is equal to or above God’s Word as if it is an extra biblical revelation that not necessarily has to conform to Scriptural truth. Additionally, You suggested that subjective personal inner experiential revelation is to be trusted equally with Scripture or even above Scripture. As an example, when you have been faced with difficult interpretations during our discussions you have fallen back on inner feelings or “gnosis” as to what is the truth being conveyed by Scripture. This leaves room for great error in my opinion and for the great doctor of the Church St. Irenaeus in His work “Against Heresies”.
(LottaLou) Also, I am learning more about Christianity from reading what you write. So even if I don't agree with everything you write, I still find it interesting.
(Cristoiglesia) Thank you, I feel the same way. Iron sharpens Iron.
God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
24 July, 2009
Discussion with Mako Koizumi about criticisms of the Church
(Mako Koizumi) Oh, I apologize if I have offended you or your religion in the slightest way possible. However, yes, I am very, very aware that everything I posted about the Catholic church is the wholesome truth. Everything.
(Cristoiglesia) I did not respond to you because I was offended although the false accusations you made are quite offensive. The reason I did so was to encourage you to repent from your sin of bearing false witness against Christ’s Church and His faithful. It was from a concern for your soul that it may remain unrepentant for your sin and will die to Christ as a result.
It seems as if you have been the victim of false teachers and that is sad for they have caused you to commit the sin of bearing false witness which is against the Decalogue."
(Mako Koizumi) Actually, that cannot be possible for I have not been taught by false teachers.
(Cristoiglesia) OK, then where did you get the nonsense you posted about Christ’s Church?
(Mako Koizumi) I am assuming what you have shared must be the Catholic way. However, as a Christian, I am not permitted to ALWAYS accept the teachings from higher authority. People are still people. And so, these people who are said to be "holy" can quite be the opposite. But what I do cater to and embrace is the bible, the only God-given truth sent down from heaven.
(Cristoiglesia) I see. So you reject the authority that Christ placed on earth which is His Church for a book about the Church and written by the Church (New Testament) but do not accept the teaching of the Church which the Bible states is the “pillar and foundation of the truth. The Bible further states that it does not contain the fullness of truth of Jesus’ teaching that is contained in the teaching of the Church and preserved by apostolic succession and the teaching authority of the Church given by Jesus. It seems as if you call yourself Christian and then turn from the familial relationship that Jesus founded through His Church for the doctrines of men instead of Christ’s authority given to the Church. That real makes no sense, does it? Jesus is the Word made flesh and not a book. We did not write the New Testament and canonize the Christian Scriptures to be used outside of the Church but as the written supplement to God’s Word which contains both the written and the oral Sacred Traditions. The Bible was certainly inspired by God but it did not fall down from heaven in Elizabethan English. The fact is that the will of Jesus for all Christians is that we do accept the teaching of His Church for at the garden of Gethsemane the night of His arrest He prayed that we all be one in His Church just as He and the Father are one. The Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth lest you call Jesus a liar and an imposter as the Messiah. So, are you calling Jesus a liar by rejecting the authority He gave on earth to His Church which is called the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church? There is no other.
(Mako Koizumi) My friend, have you ever thoroughly read the bible? From Genesis TO Revelations, have you, my brother, read it? The truth is from Jesus' teachings, not the doctrines and teachings from your "Mother Church of Rome".
False teachers? No, no, no. It is not my way to just listen to the people and NOT dig into the facts. All these things that I did find were not words from people. It was from research.
(Cristoiglesia) I have read the Bible many times and have taught it to others thoroughly. Are you aware that the entire Bible is taught in the Catholic Church every three years? Have you read the Bible including the New Testament which contains the Testimony of our founders to the teaching of Jesus? But, I have also read the teaching of the Church fathers and of the Church of which Jesus gave all authority on earth. So, what makes you think that your own judgment and intellect is greater than the promise of Jesus that His Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth”? Whether it is one false teacher (yourself) or many you are still the victim of deception by the father of lies and the carnal condition of pride and arrogance that you can usurp the authority that Jesus has given to His Church.
(Mako Koizumi) "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
-Matthew 16:18
That is not referring to the Catholic church.
(Cristoiglesia) It most certainly is referring to His Church. St. Ignatius who was the third bishop of the bishopric of St. Peter in Antioch and a disciple of St. Peter and of St. John defined the Church as those who gather around the Bishop in apostolic succession. Do you know more about the definition of the Church than one who learned at the foot of two of our Lord’s chosen; who are two of the foundation stones of the Church according to our Lord? Why is this not an example of pride as well as disobedience?
Here is where you were bearing false witness against Christ’s Church and His faithful.
(Mako Koizumi) Did you know the Catholic church also:
a. Departed from faith - They teach different ways to get into heaven. Examples are purgatory and good deeds (things that are strictly not stated in the bible).
(Cristoiglesia) You obviously do not know what the Church teaches about faith. The Church teaches that we are saved by God’s grace through faith. What do you believe different than this? People who go through the process of purgation are already saved and are being thoroughly cleaned of the dross of sin before they can come into the presence of God. There are no sinful souls in heaven. Good deeds which certainly are evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit do not merit heaven and this is not the teaching of the Church. That would be the heresy of Pelagianism and this is forbidden for Catholic Christians to believe or practice. So, this is your first bearing of false witness against Christ’s Church and His faithful.
(Mako Koizumi) b. Give heed to seducing spirits - Catholic church has necromancers. These are "mages" who conjure the spirits of the dead to predict or influence future events. That means they consult with the dead which God strongly condemns. It is also called witch craft. (I have proofs if you need any)
(Cristoiglesia) This is the official teaching of the Church from the Catechism of the Catholic Church in regards to your claim:
Divination and magic
2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility. [305]
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future. [Cf. Deut 18:10; Jer 29:8] Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity.
So this is the second time you have chosen to bear false witness against Christ’s Church and its faithful.
(Mako Koizumi) c. Create doctrines of devils - This refers to their fabricated doctrines that do not follow the bible.
(Cristoiglesia) There are no doctrines in Catholic teaching that is contradictory to the Bible. Think about it, why would we write the New Testament and canonize the Bible and then teach contradictory to its truths? Such would be illogical thinking. I noticed that you did not mention any of these so called “doctrines of devils”. Do you realize who you are calling devils? The doctrines come from Christ as taught by His disciples. Did you really mean to make that accusation? This is the third time that you have chosen to bear false witness against Christ’s Church and His faithful.
(Mako Koizumi) d. Speak lies in hypocrisy - They believe, share, and teach what Jesus did not preach in the bible.
(Cristoiglesia) There you go again, empty accusations which have no basis in fact. We would never do such a thing. Here you have chosen to bear false witness for the fourth time against Christ’s Church and it’s faithful.
(Mako Koizumi) e. Forbid to marry - This can refer to nuns, but I believe it's pointing more to the homosexuals. The Catholic church is accepting to homosexuality and some even become one themselves. According to the bible, marriage is done with man AND woman. So, whoever does not follow this is forbidding to marry.
(Cristoiglesia) Are you accusing the Church of forbidding anyone to marry? That is a very serious accusation in the light that the first commandment was to go fourth and multiply. The truth is that the Church does not forbid anyone to marry but instead encourages marriage. There are some who choose a celibate life following the example of our Lord and St. Paul but no one forbids them to marry but they make that choice themselves in devotion to our Lord and the Church. Both Jesus and St. Paul taught in favor of the total dedication to the service of the Lord.
What do you mean that we are accepting of homosexuality? The Church condemns these practices. We would agree with you about the definition of marriage so how are we forbidding anyone to marry? We are not. So, for the fifth time you have chosen to bear false witness against Christ’s Church and His faithful.
You made five claims against the Church that are totally false yet you cannot see where you are committing a grave and egregious sin. If that is not deception I do not know how one would define what you have done.
I believe that someone has taught you these lies about the Church and caused you to sin and to embarrass yourself by repeating the lies. Now that you know the truth you can testify to those that would tell lies about he Church that what they say is false. You are in a position to stop others from sinning and making the same errors as yourself. I thank you for the opportunity to enlighten you to your errors. I pray that your enlightenment about Christ’s own Church will get you on a path to communion into the familial relationship with our Savior in His Church. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(Cristoiglesia) I did not respond to you because I was offended although the false accusations you made are quite offensive. The reason I did so was to encourage you to repent from your sin of bearing false witness against Christ’s Church and His faithful. It was from a concern for your soul that it may remain unrepentant for your sin and will die to Christ as a result.
It seems as if you have been the victim of false teachers and that is sad for they have caused you to commit the sin of bearing false witness which is against the Decalogue."
(Mako Koizumi) Actually, that cannot be possible for I have not been taught by false teachers.
(Cristoiglesia) OK, then where did you get the nonsense you posted about Christ’s Church?
(Mako Koizumi) I am assuming what you have shared must be the Catholic way. However, as a Christian, I am not permitted to ALWAYS accept the teachings from higher authority. People are still people. And so, these people who are said to be "holy" can quite be the opposite. But what I do cater to and embrace is the bible, the only God-given truth sent down from heaven.
(Cristoiglesia) I see. So you reject the authority that Christ placed on earth which is His Church for a book about the Church and written by the Church (New Testament) but do not accept the teaching of the Church which the Bible states is the “pillar and foundation of the truth. The Bible further states that it does not contain the fullness of truth of Jesus’ teaching that is contained in the teaching of the Church and preserved by apostolic succession and the teaching authority of the Church given by Jesus. It seems as if you call yourself Christian and then turn from the familial relationship that Jesus founded through His Church for the doctrines of men instead of Christ’s authority given to the Church. That real makes no sense, does it? Jesus is the Word made flesh and not a book. We did not write the New Testament and canonize the Christian Scriptures to be used outside of the Church but as the written supplement to God’s Word which contains both the written and the oral Sacred Traditions. The Bible was certainly inspired by God but it did not fall down from heaven in Elizabethan English. The fact is that the will of Jesus for all Christians is that we do accept the teaching of His Church for at the garden of Gethsemane the night of His arrest He prayed that we all be one in His Church just as He and the Father are one. The Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth lest you call Jesus a liar and an imposter as the Messiah. So, are you calling Jesus a liar by rejecting the authority He gave on earth to His Church which is called the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church? There is no other.
(Mako Koizumi) My friend, have you ever thoroughly read the bible? From Genesis TO Revelations, have you, my brother, read it? The truth is from Jesus' teachings, not the doctrines and teachings from your "Mother Church of Rome".
False teachers? No, no, no. It is not my way to just listen to the people and NOT dig into the facts. All these things that I did find were not words from people. It was from research.
(Cristoiglesia) I have read the Bible many times and have taught it to others thoroughly. Are you aware that the entire Bible is taught in the Catholic Church every three years? Have you read the Bible including the New Testament which contains the Testimony of our founders to the teaching of Jesus? But, I have also read the teaching of the Church fathers and of the Church of which Jesus gave all authority on earth. So, what makes you think that your own judgment and intellect is greater than the promise of Jesus that His Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth”? Whether it is one false teacher (yourself) or many you are still the victim of deception by the father of lies and the carnal condition of pride and arrogance that you can usurp the authority that Jesus has given to His Church.
(Mako Koizumi) "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
-Matthew 16:18
That is not referring to the Catholic church.
(Cristoiglesia) It most certainly is referring to His Church. St. Ignatius who was the third bishop of the bishopric of St. Peter in Antioch and a disciple of St. Peter and of St. John defined the Church as those who gather around the Bishop in apostolic succession. Do you know more about the definition of the Church than one who learned at the foot of two of our Lord’s chosen; who are two of the foundation stones of the Church according to our Lord? Why is this not an example of pride as well as disobedience?
Here is where you were bearing false witness against Christ’s Church and His faithful.
(Mako Koizumi) Did you know the Catholic church also:
a. Departed from faith - They teach different ways to get into heaven. Examples are purgatory and good deeds (things that are strictly not stated in the bible).
(Cristoiglesia) You obviously do not know what the Church teaches about faith. The Church teaches that we are saved by God’s grace through faith. What do you believe different than this? People who go through the process of purgation are already saved and are being thoroughly cleaned of the dross of sin before they can come into the presence of God. There are no sinful souls in heaven. Good deeds which certainly are evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit do not merit heaven and this is not the teaching of the Church. That would be the heresy of Pelagianism and this is forbidden for Catholic Christians to believe or practice. So, this is your first bearing of false witness against Christ’s Church and His faithful.
(Mako Koizumi) b. Give heed to seducing spirits - Catholic church has necromancers. These are "mages" who conjure the spirits of the dead to predict or influence future events. That means they consult with the dead which God strongly condemns. It is also called witch craft. (I have proofs if you need any)
(Cristoiglesia) This is the official teaching of the Church from the Catechism of the Catholic Church in regards to your claim:
Divination and magic
2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility. [305]
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future. [Cf. Deut 18:10; Jer 29:8] Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity.
So this is the second time you have chosen to bear false witness against Christ’s Church and its faithful.
(Mako Koizumi) c. Create doctrines of devils - This refers to their fabricated doctrines that do not follow the bible.
(Cristoiglesia) There are no doctrines in Catholic teaching that is contradictory to the Bible. Think about it, why would we write the New Testament and canonize the Bible and then teach contradictory to its truths? Such would be illogical thinking. I noticed that you did not mention any of these so called “doctrines of devils”. Do you realize who you are calling devils? The doctrines come from Christ as taught by His disciples. Did you really mean to make that accusation? This is the third time that you have chosen to bear false witness against Christ’s Church and His faithful.
(Mako Koizumi) d. Speak lies in hypocrisy - They believe, share, and teach what Jesus did not preach in the bible.
(Cristoiglesia) There you go again, empty accusations which have no basis in fact. We would never do such a thing. Here you have chosen to bear false witness for the fourth time against Christ’s Church and it’s faithful.
(Mako Koizumi) e. Forbid to marry - This can refer to nuns, but I believe it's pointing more to the homosexuals. The Catholic church is accepting to homosexuality and some even become one themselves. According to the bible, marriage is done with man AND woman. So, whoever does not follow this is forbidding to marry.
(Cristoiglesia) Are you accusing the Church of forbidding anyone to marry? That is a very serious accusation in the light that the first commandment was to go fourth and multiply. The truth is that the Church does not forbid anyone to marry but instead encourages marriage. There are some who choose a celibate life following the example of our Lord and St. Paul but no one forbids them to marry but they make that choice themselves in devotion to our Lord and the Church. Both Jesus and St. Paul taught in favor of the total dedication to the service of the Lord.
What do you mean that we are accepting of homosexuality? The Church condemns these practices. We would agree with you about the definition of marriage so how are we forbidding anyone to marry? We are not. So, for the fifth time you have chosen to bear false witness against Christ’s Church and His faithful.
You made five claims against the Church that are totally false yet you cannot see where you are committing a grave and egregious sin. If that is not deception I do not know how one would define what you have done.
I believe that someone has taught you these lies about the Church and caused you to sin and to embarrass yourself by repeating the lies. Now that you know the truth you can testify to those that would tell lies about he Church that what they say is false. You are in a position to stop others from sinning and making the same errors as yourself. I thank you for the opportunity to enlighten you to your errors. I pray that your enlightenment about Christ’s own Church will get you on a path to communion into the familial relationship with our Savior in His Church. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Discussion with LottaLou about the blood of Christ and redemption
(Cristoiglesia) You're very wrong to believe Christians are free from sin & all those that sin are reprobate souls. We're certainly not forgiven of future sins that are not confessed and repented.
(LottaLou) I know Christians sin. I sin. But I don't make a comfortable habit of it. I repent when the Lord convicts me of something. He makes me right. The Holy Spirit is always with me. The blood covers all sins, past present & future.
Salvation is the Gift of God. We are saved by Grace through faith, and not of our works lest we boast... Eternal life is purchased for us on the Cross. What rewards we receive is based on our obedience & deeds done rooted in faith, hope & love... Perishable deeds R fried.
(Cristoiglesia) 1 John 1:6-10 (King James Version)
6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
I am not sure what you meant when you said that “the blood covers our sins.”
I am hopeful that you did not mean that His blood cloaks us in some way, as is taught in the heretical Calvinist teaching, to allow a sinful soul to enter heaven and come into the presence of God. Such is not the teaching of the Bible and Christ’s Church.
Here St. John is teaching against the claims of false teachers who may teach that we can be in a familial relationship with God and still in darkness. Such teachers speak of the carnal self as being worthless and lost to sin in which one indulged themselves in sin or would discipline themselves from sin but that in any case it did not matter because the body would be destroyed and corrupted. The truth is to love God is to no longer be a slave to sin. He begins by speaking of our fellowship and communion with one another in Christ’s one Church. Only this relationship is blessed by the Holy Spirit and becomes a living faith instead of a dead faith lacking the fruits of the Spirit which are our works. It is the Spirit that convicts us of our sin and as a result there is no condemnation for those who remain in Christ as the Spirit appeals to the law on our hearts to seek forgiveness in Him and Through His sacrifice.(Rom 8:1) In contrition and repentance we are restored when we err and fall for the snares of Satan. Christ’s Blood cleanses us of all sin.
In the Old Testament the faithful transferred their sin to an animal which was sacrificed. Their forgiveness was earned by their faith and obedience. But in this practice there really was no actual forgiveness of sin in the sense that the person still remained the same sinful soul whose sin was paid for through faith and obedience but there was not a cleansing or removal of the sin which came with Jesus’ sacrifice which was the true Lamb of God who does remove the sin of the world. He removed the spiritual death that comes with unrepentant sin. He brings us His kingdom and a new familial relationship with Him through a New Covenant. He said “It is finished” on the cross and the Old Covenant of animal sacrifices for sin to a New Covenant abiding in Him and trusting in Him in His kingdom for truly the last cup, the cup of consummation was drank from the Hyssop branch which served the Israelites to protect their child by sprinkling the blood of the lamb, that same branch spread the New covenant to all mankind as a protection of His sacrifice and His blood upon mankind. He drank from the hyssop branch by sucking on the sponge and then said to the entire world that the perfect Lamb of God had conquered the sin of man. At the last supper He said that He would not drink from the cup of consummation until His kingdom come. It is truly the kingdom of the Lamb.
In conclusion, it is not a covering of the blood as in a cloak that is the work of Christ. For a covering of our sin is not effectual in gaining our presence with God as no sin will be in His presence even covered in God’s blood? Such would be a delusion of man and a false assurance as taught by Calvin. Such is not the work of Christ. The blood applied by the atoning sacrifice of Christ is not a cloak to sneak a sinful soul into heaven but instead it cleanses our soul and purifies so that we can be with God in the form of the soul of Adam before the fall of man. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
(LottaLou) I know Christians sin. I sin. But I don't make a comfortable habit of it. I repent when the Lord convicts me of something. He makes me right. The Holy Spirit is always with me. The blood covers all sins, past present & future.
Salvation is the Gift of God. We are saved by Grace through faith, and not of our works lest we boast... Eternal life is purchased for us on the Cross. What rewards we receive is based on our obedience & deeds done rooted in faith, hope & love... Perishable deeds R fried.
(Cristoiglesia) 1 John 1:6-10 (King James Version)
6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
I am not sure what you meant when you said that “the blood covers our sins.”
I am hopeful that you did not mean that His blood cloaks us in some way, as is taught in the heretical Calvinist teaching, to allow a sinful soul to enter heaven and come into the presence of God. Such is not the teaching of the Bible and Christ’s Church.
Here St. John is teaching against the claims of false teachers who may teach that we can be in a familial relationship with God and still in darkness. Such teachers speak of the carnal self as being worthless and lost to sin in which one indulged themselves in sin or would discipline themselves from sin but that in any case it did not matter because the body would be destroyed and corrupted. The truth is to love God is to no longer be a slave to sin. He begins by speaking of our fellowship and communion with one another in Christ’s one Church. Only this relationship is blessed by the Holy Spirit and becomes a living faith instead of a dead faith lacking the fruits of the Spirit which are our works. It is the Spirit that convicts us of our sin and as a result there is no condemnation for those who remain in Christ as the Spirit appeals to the law on our hearts to seek forgiveness in Him and Through His sacrifice.(Rom 8:1) In contrition and repentance we are restored when we err and fall for the snares of Satan. Christ’s Blood cleanses us of all sin.
In the Old Testament the faithful transferred their sin to an animal which was sacrificed. Their forgiveness was earned by their faith and obedience. But in this practice there really was no actual forgiveness of sin in the sense that the person still remained the same sinful soul whose sin was paid for through faith and obedience but there was not a cleansing or removal of the sin which came with Jesus’ sacrifice which was the true Lamb of God who does remove the sin of the world. He removed the spiritual death that comes with unrepentant sin. He brings us His kingdom and a new familial relationship with Him through a New Covenant. He said “It is finished” on the cross and the Old Covenant of animal sacrifices for sin to a New Covenant abiding in Him and trusting in Him in His kingdom for truly the last cup, the cup of consummation was drank from the Hyssop branch which served the Israelites to protect their child by sprinkling the blood of the lamb, that same branch spread the New covenant to all mankind as a protection of His sacrifice and His blood upon mankind. He drank from the hyssop branch by sucking on the sponge and then said to the entire world that the perfect Lamb of God had conquered the sin of man. At the last supper He said that He would not drink from the cup of consummation until His kingdom come. It is truly the kingdom of the Lamb.
In conclusion, it is not a covering of the blood as in a cloak that is the work of Christ. For a covering of our sin is not effectual in gaining our presence with God as no sin will be in His presence even covered in God’s blood? Such would be a delusion of man and a false assurance as taught by Calvin. Such is not the work of Christ. The blood applied by the atoning sacrifice of Christ is not a cloak to sneak a sinful soul into heaven but instead it cleanses our soul and purifies so that we can be with God in the form of the soul of Adam before the fall of man. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
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